Family First, Business Second
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In this engaging conversation, Kathleen Stafford shares her diverse career journey, from her early days at Wells Fargo to her experiences in the restaurant business and her current role as a realtor. She reflects on the importance of family, the challenges of navigating career changes, and the lessons learned along the way. The discussion emphasizes the value of hard work, independence, and the impact of personal experiences on shaping one's life path.
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- We are the sum of our experiences and the roads we've taken.
- It's never too late to start over and try something new.
- The importance of family and being present in children's lives.
- Navigating career changes can lead to unexpected opportunities.
- Running a restaurant is both rewarding and physically demanding.
- Teaching financial literacy to kids is crucial.
- The balance between work and family life is essential.
- Embracing independence and allowing children to find their own paths.
- Life is about making choices based on circumstances.
- Nothing easy is worth having; hard work is essential. -
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Jonathan Mahrt (A):
This is on the Flywheel, a podcast where each week we talk to entrepreneurs and professionals about the practical things they do to build and keep momentum in their personal and professional lives. Hello and welcome to on the Flywheel. I'm your host, Jonathan Mart with Flywheel Consulting. And today I'm excited to have on the podcast Kathleen Stafford, a Realtor with Vanguard Properties. Thanks for coming on today.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Hello. Thanks for having me.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So I'm excited to have this conversation with you because you've lived a lot of different lives and had a lot of different careers, and so I think that will be interesting to explore the journey. But also I think maybe there's going to be a takeaway here, that maybe it's never too late to start over and try something new.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Are you insinuating that I'm old?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
No, I'm insinuating that you're experienced.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Experienced, yes. Yes.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I would never do that. So start as you're a realtor now. But where. Where did you start?
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Well, I started. I mean, we can go way back. And my very kind of first career job was at Wells Fargo as a flex. They used to call it flex Schedule Teller. So basically that was their way of not having to give you benefits. You just worked like 17 hours a week or below or something like that.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Was this like you were going to school at the same time, or was this just kind of filling in the gaps?
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Graduated from high school and unfortunately at. My plans for college kind of got derailed because my father passed away from a heart attack.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Sorry to hear that.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah, that was. That was kind of. So I was living in Marin with my dad and my stepmom, and I gonna go away to school. I had gotten accepted to Santa Barbara, San Diego, Chico. I kind of like the small town of Chico. So that was where I was kind of heading. And he started kind of letting us know that he was having heart issues and was supposed to be stopping smoking so he could go in and get this angioplasty done. And I would come home a lot and he would be out on the port porch, like, smoking, trying to hide it from my stepmom. So that kind of grounded me a little bit. I wasn't kind of sure what I was gonna do. So, unfortunately, he never stopped smoking, never got that surgery, and died from a massive heart attack.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So, yeah, that's.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
That was.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's tough. Especially at that age that's really young to lose your dad.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah, it was. And living in a place like Marin, I mean, it was good and bad. My mom, who I Was am or she passed away also. But at that time I'm very close to. She lived in this little town called Bly, Oregon. And there was like a gas station and a mini mart and it was 50 miles away from a decent sized town of Klamath Falls, Oregon. So I knew if I had moved there that this sounds horrible, but my dating pool would have been like a gas station attendant or something like that because it's snowed there. So how can you go to school 50 miles away in the winter? So I thought, you know what, I'm buckling down. I enrolled in College of Marin night classes and started working at Wells Fargo.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And that was a local community college.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yes, in Marin and Kempfield. We had lived in Greenbrae from there and my tangled road. So that was a road that I didn't plan on. Right. But I will say I had great expectations of knowing what I wanted out of life and not moving to a tiny town that didn't have an economy that I couldn't flourish in. I knew I had to do something to keep up with the lifestyle that I had wanted. So that began the race forever. Still chasing it, still trying to afford everything.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So if it's not too personal, I am curious. That is a pretty traumatic thing to happen to you. I know it's hard. My wife has experienced some of the same stuff, like heart issues run big time in her family and it took. She lost. Most of her uncles have died from heart heart attack and her, her dad had her. It took so much convincing to get this guy into the hospital and it's still a constant fight. But he had to have a quadruple bypass. And so it's that. That's hard to grapple with. And so I'm wondering how that affected you at a young age. How do you think it changed your outlook on life?
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Well, this is funny because I grew up, I. I was born in the 70s but grew up in the 80s. And I think I've talked to you about this before. But we were all latchkey kids. We had parents that both work. So we ran. We just ran the town. We did whatever we wanted to do. So I was already very independent, probably overly independent, but I did have the grounding of my father, who was very successful. He retired from the Air Force, very high command before I was born. But I had his military upbringing. Even though he was retired, was still there. We moved every two years, literally, even if it was just to the next town in Marin, and a couple times moved to Petaluma, which is how I found Petaluma and wanted to raise my kids here, but there was always a foundation. And when he came out of the military, he started his own business. He was an entrepreneur, very successful and, and driven and very smart. So. And I was his sixth or seventh kid, depending on who you ask. So I'm very serious when I say that. So. And he, and I was, he was an older parent, you know, to me, so he was exhausted by the time I came around. But he did kind of say a few pointed things to me here and there, like, you don't think you're kidding, you know, I know what you're doing. Really, so knock it off and figure it out.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So it kept you just grounded enough that you didn't do anything too stupid?
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yes, exactly. But he was my pillar of strength. And when he passed away, you, you do have this feeling of like all of a sudden that rug has been pulled out below you and you, you got to figure things out quick. And I did, I figured things out quick. I made decisions that maybe weren't the greatest of decisions. Moving in with boyfriends and you know, that kind of stuff. But those were choices that I had made because of situations and I think the tools that I had gathered along the way as that independent latchkey kid running the streets basically and understanding if you want something, it's, it's going to take work. It, it gave me what I needed. But I did still feel as a young woman in the 80s especially like working in a banking situation where you're.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Still very like old, white and male at that time for sure.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
And it was, it was one of those things where I had to really sink down and just ask those hard questions and they had to answer to a 20 year old girl, but they did. And I really enjoyed it and kind of flourished through there and got through it and along the way met and married my first husband, the father of my three kids, which we were talking about earlier. I got married at 23, first kid at 25, second two and three were twins, came at 28. It was, I mean that's what you did, right? You go to work, you do what you can. And at the time my husband was a chef who worked for his parents who had a couple restaurants. So he was gone all the time, literally crazy hours.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
So it was a passing of the night kind of thing. And that's what led to the divorce at 37. But we're still friends, we still co parent. We did end up opening a restaurant together after he kind of parted ways with his Parents and wanted to do something. I somehow weaseled my way into opening a restaurant with him and my. My current husband that I had married by then. So it was.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So you, you started the restaurant after you were divorced with your ex husband and my husband and your current husband.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yep.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I did not know that. That is, that is. Okay, we're gonna have to. I got questions about that.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
I know it was, you know, the things you do for your kids.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Kids.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
And I knew him being a chef, unless I got involved and got him really close to them where they could see him often, they may not have had an opportunity really, to spend a lot of time with him.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So that was so. So that was the motivation then. It was, it was more about the kids than some big dream to open a restaurant.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah. And even though he was my ex husband, he is an extremely talented chef. I mean, just extremely talented. And we had talked for years when we were married about opening restaurants and all that kind of stuff. So it just kind of happened. And I am blessed that my husband Lawrence is. He just, he just accepts me and all my crazy ideas, you know, he really does.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
It's important to have a partner that, you know, is ride or die, so to speak, and willing to, for sure to, to back you up. So, so was he. What was, what was the relationship? Then your, your, Your ex husband's in the kitchen and then are you guys doing. Your new husband is business partner? What is he. Is he silent?
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Like how both of us being silent? I was still working at Wells Fargo and I just, you know, I was going to be a silent partner. And I worked for six months and all of a sudden, you know, one month in, I'm getting calls from employees calling in sick, and I'm like, okay, what am I gonna do? I'm at work. So I ended up retiring from Wells Fargo, and then I was the front of House Diva. He was the back of house chef. And my husband was working for HP at the time, but worked remotely. He worked for beer. So he'd come and sit at the bar and drink beer, and if I was busy, he'd get up, he'd help with the tables. I mean, just, just, you know, they'd gang up against me and it just, it, it just worked. Yeah, and we did that for about 10 years. And I got really good at yelling without yelling, so I would do that at Shellian granted thing to my ex husband in the back or my current husband, whoever was pissing me off at the time. But it was so fun and exhilarating and Building your business and seeing something that you started that was just, you know, pacing the floors because there was no customers to having, like, a bustling community kind of. I don't know if you remember Cheers. You're kind of younger than me, but it was a Cheers.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I'm aware of Cheers. I've never really watched Cheers. I'm sorry.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Well, it was the east side Petaluma. Cheers. I may not remember your name, but I know what you eat and what your kid eats and all that kind of stuff, so it was great.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. I mean, that's got to be one of the most. Restaurants are hard, as I understand, but it's got to be one of the most rewarding parts is like, when you do end up with a full restaurant, people are enjoying the food and they're gathering together, and that does have to feel really special.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
It was great. It was super fun. And. And then the stress did get a lot on my body, you know, because in order to have a successful restaurant, you need to be there working.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
And lifting kegs and food. And my knees started to give out, my elbows, that kind of stuff.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I don't think people realize how physical of a job it can be.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
It was crazy long hours. So then I kind of decided that I wanted to retire, and we had a family friend that was gonna buy me out. And then Covid came that blessing that screwed everything up. But I quickly pivoted and made that, like a no hands on kind of pick up to go thing. Got it all settled and was still able to kind of move on. So it was. It was good. I missed it terribly during COVID because we're at home and all.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You're, like, used to being around so many people all the time, and then you just. It's nothing.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yep. And then from there, my son had graduated high school, one of my twins, and said, mom, I'm going to get my real estate license. And. And I said, okay. He goes, you should too. We could have another family business. So I did. And promptly after I got my license, he said, oh, you know, mom, it's just not my. It's not my vibe. What do you mean it's not your vibe? He goes, yeah, it's just not my vibe.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
It's harder than people realize, I think, to be a realtor. Not that I know from personal experience.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
It is. It is. So he left, and here I am. And I actually love it. I love. I'm super, super involved in our business community. I have been since Wells Fargo. I've started in the chamber and was an ambassador since Wells Fargo. And, and that's really kind of helped me know what to do throughout these different hats that I'm wearing.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So let's, let's. Wells Fargo. How long do you work for Wells Fargo?
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Two decades.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay, so let's talk about Wells Fargo for a second because that's longer still than, than restaurant and realtor combined.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So you started out doing this kind of flex job. Was that a commissioned role at all?
Kathleen Stafford (B):
No, it was just an hourly and.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Part time teller kind of thing.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
And then I worked my way up to teller and then they had like a CSR customer service representative and then to a banker and then from a banker to a premier banker, which that's where I stayed. And I really liked it. It was all about relationships, but like building relationships and utilizing your partners to make sure that the clients were, you know, taken care of with every aspect of their banking, from housing to their investments to their checking account.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
People have a lot of mixed feelings about Wells Fargo. Now, obviously, you know, it's been a minute since you've worked there. How, what? I mean, you stayed there a long time. How was it working, working for them?
Kathleen Stafford (B):
I mean, I went through all of that. It was tough sales. It really was tough sales. But I have to say that job helped me raise my kids. You know, I had great bosses. So if I needed to cut down for two or three months during the summer to spend more time with my kids, they'd let me. And I learned how to look people in the eye, how to shake their hand. Their training was second to none. And so it worked for me. I, I learned how to service my clients based on what they need, not on what they were telling me I needed them to have. So I had a backbone and was able to just say, you know, I'm doing what I think is best for my clients.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right. Because when you got to those higher levels, then that was more commission based stuff. Did you have like a base salary.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Or base salary and. Yeah, and then some commission bonuses, we'll call it bonuses.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. So you were incentivized to sell certain products, but that may always incentivized.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
You were expected, you know, were there.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Like KPIs for you to sell that.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Before KPIs even came to be? Yes. I mean it really was. This is what you were supposed to sell to one customer, this, that and the other. And I will say it wasn't just Wells Fargo. It was every bank out there.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I'm sure.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
B of a Bank of Marin Exchange, all of Those. Right. It just.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
It was the culture back then. And then Wells Fargo was getting. I don't remember what tipped the iceberg, but thankfully I was gone and thinking, oh, boy. I dodged.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, there was the news. I don't remember the exact details, but basically, I guess the incentives became so misaligned with being in the best interest of customers, the culture changed that people were just like, opening up fake check. Not fake, but opening up checking accounts and other kinds of accounts and stuff without. Without getting approval on things.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Wanting to. I don't think that was ever expected by the upper managers, but those people that were in those roles felt that that was the only way that they.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Could hit the numbers.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
To hit the numbers instead of pushing back and saying, listen, you know, or finding a niche that, you know, they enjoyed. I had kids at the time, so I would go out and educate at Meadow School and bring fake money and show them what a budget was. And, you know, all those families came and opened savings accounts and I would go and do financial literacy when they were in high school. And so I just. I kind of just forged my own trails.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. I don't think I can ever recall being in high school and having, like, a banker come in and talk to us. I think a lot of kids that's actually, I think a really smart.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
They didn't want to listen to me, so that's the only way I could get them to listen to me. Right. Is to put myself in a position where they have to listen to me. Me.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
So I was not only teaching them those lessons, I was teaching their friends those lessons as well.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
It's interesting how many of your. I mean, and I guess this is just what a good mom does, but how many of your choices related to your career were. Were influenced by you, like, and you or your husband, like, spending more time with your children.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
100.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Or trying to teach them something.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
And I, I still. I was having a conversation earlier that 100% of my actions are still surrounding my kids. You know, that's just my life. Right. I. I have three adult kids. My husband has three adult kids. We have four grandsons through my husband's side. And hopefully soon or, you know, in the. In the not so far future, we'll have more from my side.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Yeah. And that is what her kids are watching. Hint, hint.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah. Let's get them married first.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay, fair enough.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Which is the first one gets married May of next year. But I really, I think that living and growing up in the 80s where you didn't have that Family dinner, at least I didn't. It really predispositioned me to want to give that to my kids. They were working in the city. They didn't come to my cheerleading games. They didn't come to my swim meets or my softball games or, you know, any of the classroom plays that you did. I went to every single one.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
You know, it's.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
It's interesting that my dad's situation is very similar, that it's interesting how we either. It's either we decide we're going to be completely the opposite of our parents, or we end up repeating the same patterns.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
There's not a lot of, like, in between. You know, my dad was a similar situation. I mean, my grandparents were, like, working on the farm all the time, and that's what he did. He didn't get to do a lot of extracurriculars because it was like, oh, you take the bus. I'm not driving you to some.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Someplace. And then my dad worked a lot, but was really good about showing. At least showing up to things. Like, he wasn't gonna, like, pick me up from school or anything, but he was going to come to my basketball game, and, you know, if I was. Had a concert or something, he was going to be there. And I think. I know that wasn't a direct response to how little support he got from his parents growing up.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
I mean, it's true. That's kind of my thought process on everything is we are the sum of our experiences and the roads that we have taken. And some of those roads we couldn't pick. Right. Like, your dad was born into that family. You were born into that family. You followed that family at first in your work history, working for your family business. That was not a choice necessarily. That was your road that you were born on. But since then, you've decided, I'm going to take this road and this.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Forge my own path. Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I will say, while there was a lot of feeling like it was not. I did have a choice in working at least once I graduated college. I did just. I did. I want to be clear, not that my family's watching this, but I did have a choice in going back to the. To work on the farm. But there was also, like, it is kind of this, like, big looming thing in the. In the background. And so I think it would have been hard to have never tried doing it Right. You know, and so in some way, like, it was something I had to do. And I think in the sense that I would have regretted it never having Tried it, probably, yeah. You know, and I learned a tremendous amount from it. And so, like you said, like, even though I ended up starting to go, I'm going in a different direction, I still needed those experiences 100% to end up where I am today.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
And that is all life. And when I tell my kids things, it's not because I know more, it's just because I've been along more roads than they have, and I try to give them the benefit of that. They'll never take it. But, you know, literally, that's. That's what it is. And, yeah, I didn't choose necessarily. I didn't. I didn't ever want to be a banker.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Or a restaurant owner, like growing up, or a realtor. That was not what I wanted to do. I wanted to either be an attorney or I wanted to go and be a child psychologist, and that's what I was going to go to school for. And, you know, I have to give my kids a little bit of a break because I'm always pushing for them to get a corporate job that has paychecks and benefits, because I know how it was now, working for myself for 10 years, and my father being, you know, an entrepreneur, and I remember him with bills all over the table and stress, and I don't want that for my kids. But at the same time, I don't think they should really know what they're going to do. Do with their life. Because, yeah, look, I still. I still don't know what tomorrow brings. I really don't. And. And I hope I have that feeling forever. I hope I always go after something, no matter what the age is, you.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Know, I mean, I think that's the essence of living in some regards, like, if you're. If I think it, I. I hope I don't end up in a place where it is like. It's just every day is the same and I have nothing new, pursuing nothing. And that could be as simple as just like, you know, at some point in my life where I don't have to work anymore, but I have a hobby, but at least it's in inventing new things. I think when you just stop and you're just watching TV all day, that's when things get rough.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah. Objects in motion tend to stay in motion.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Exactly.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Give up and.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
And if it's that time of your life where, you know, I didn't particularly enjoy my whole career at Wells Fargo, there was a lot of stress, but I knew that it's what I had to do at that point. And I think that everybody will have to do something that they don't want to do.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
It's just you make your choices based on where you are at the moment.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And, you know, there's, I mean, there's, we can't control, Lots of, Most of the time, we can't control what happens to us. Right. What circumstances we end. I mean, obviously our choices have, have some effect. But what we can. Like you couldn't do anything about your dad having a heart attack. Right. But you can. The choice you do have is how you're going to respond in those circumstances. And I think that's what people lose sight of. I mean, I am saying this coming from a place of relative privilege. Growing up, we didn't have crazy amount of money, but over time, my parents became more successful and I had a stable home and I never moved. I grew up in the same house. My parents still live in the same house. So I had a lot of privileges. But I think people, like, some people get some level of privilege. Right. Some people are going to have it harder. And at some point, life doesn't care. You have to choose how you're going to react to that because there's only going to be so many handouts. There's only so many things that people are willing to do for you. At some point, you have to do it for yourself. And I think that's a perfect example of what you. Based on what you're, you know, the story is you've made choices to do what you had to do to take care of yourself and to take care of your family, regardless of if it was exactly what you wanted at that time.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And that's sometimes.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
And nobody slows down. Boy. Like, when you're an adult, nobody stops and goes, what do you want to do when you grow up? It's like, oh, I. Oops, sorry. I said, I said, I, I'm an adult. I, I, okay. Nobody's asking me.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
You know, it's like in the old days, you'd get out the paper and you would look for jobs.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right. You would open the classifieds, go to.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
An area of businesses and look for the help wanted sign. Like, no joke, there was no Craigslist.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
There was no Internet, LinkedIn.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
None of that. None of that. So. And that also closed in your world a lot. And that's where privilege does kind of poke its head in those areas.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Absolutely.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
It's not really what you know, it's who you know. And a lot of people get their starts by that. And you know, I, I think of a lot of times where people go, oh gosh, you know, I. Poor me, poor me. And somebody else is saying, oh, you're privileged. And they don't see it. That is privilege. Right. And we have to. Like you said, I kind of grew up in a way. I call it a semi charmed life. I had pretty much everything I wanted, but I didn't have what I really thought I needed, which was that family, close knit family and those Sunday dinners. And when I found myself in Petaluma, like I said my dad, we moved every two years. I think it was like in third grade we moved to Petaluma and on a street where there were neighbors and I met friends and we would play on the streets. And I remember like literally sitting on the stoop of my house, you know, when everybody else was being called into dinner and everybody thought my pink Schwinn bicycle was so great and my, my rabbit fur coat, I, I mean I had all of that. And they were like, oh my God. But you this and you that. And all I really wanted to do was have a family to come home to.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, that's. It's amazing how simple kids are.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You know, it's just like, yeah, stuff is great, but it never, it never is the same as just having feeling unconditional love from your parents on like a consistent basis in that quality time.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yep.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You know, I, I feel my kids are young, so I don't know, you know, I. There's a lot I haven't experienced, but I do feel like that's. I mean, we could. They don't know the difference. They don't care about how, you know, regardless of how me and my wife feel about something, like, they don't know how small our house is. They don't know how. They don't care about what the budget is. They just, they don't care about. They can have two toys and you know, they go outside and they play with half the time. Got a bunch of crap outside and they just want to play with like some, like a bucket of sand and some water and like sticks and rocks. Like, they don't care about any of that stuff. They just want to feel loved.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Just wait.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Well, I understand. I.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Then the brands come and they see their friends with this and that. But I also think that giving structure and teaching them, like, I remember my dad, which I could have gotten anything right, but there, there were these times where I wanted these guess overalls and I remember they were $85.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And I said that's a lot in the 80s. Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
I said, dad, I want these, these overalls. And he's like, well, how much are they? I go, 85 bucks. And he looks at me, he goes, I'll give you 35 if you really want it. You go, earn the other 50.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
There you go.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
And. And I kind of learned like, okay, well, I could settle for this Mervin's pair for 35 bucks. Or I can go and babysit. And I did. I made flyers up. I passed them out to the neighbors. I did what I had to do to get what I wanted.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's a super valuable lesson, though, because if he, if, if, if he, you know, if you had ended up in a situation where you hadn't learned those lessons, I'm sure it would have been a lot more difficult for you to kind of pick yourself up by the bootstraps when, you know, when he did pass away, probably.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
And the fact that my mom lived very simple life in small towns and, you know, double wide trailer. She also moved a lot, but, you know, never had an excess. In excess of money. Right. We were always kind of. So when I went there in the summertime and during Christmas, what I got there was very different. Like she had gone shopping for me and washed the clothes and folded them and put them on my bed, and it felt like, wow, it's a home.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
My mom's house was always the cleanest house ever. So I. I learned such. I lived two lives. Basically that semi charmed life and then this other life where I saw hardworking people surviving and happy.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
So it kind of. That did center me a lot. It wasn't just all this wealth in Marin that I saw and my friends getting brand new cars and, you know, I didn't get brand new cars, but in fact, my first car was a 77 Thunderbird, and it was green with white.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That sounds pretty cool. Actually.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
It was not.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
No, not at the time.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Not at the time.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Thunderbolts were no longer cool at that.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Brio lays like the little convertible VWS Volkswagen. And I had this. We called it the green machine. I couldn't even back out of my driveway, literally. But my dad thought, you know what, for your first car, this is what I'm comfortable giving you. And, you know, I look back and think, that car, my God. I mean, just. Yeah. In high school in Marin county and you get a car like that, you have to be able to hold your own. You know, here I am a cheerleader. Get out of this. I mean, it was, it was like, it Was so polar opposite of what my friends had.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
But I love that car. I mean it, it. Until the brakes failed and I didn't stop and then, then there was a problem.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I think that's interesting. I feel like, you know, like cars were such a sign of independence, you know. But now lots of like, I feel like cars mattered when I was in high school, but was more like, did you just have a car or not? Yeah, right there. Obviously you were jealous of. There were the kids with like brand new cars.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You know, I was always jealous of a kid that was like driving a new pickup and had like an exhaust on it and stuff like that. And I was. And for me, my first car was a like 1970s like diesel yellow Mercedes. Wow. This thing while you. It's not as fancy as you think that actually my grandparents had imported. They're you know, 100 German. So they had actually at that time it was pretty. They. They'd regularly go back to Germany and then bring a car back with them.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Wow.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That was like a common thing to do. And, and so they had it for a long, long time. But this thing went 0 to 60 in like 15 minutes. It was, it was, it was so slow. It was literally a boat. But those 70s cars, the culture has changed around it where like lots of kids aren't even getting driver's licenses. Like even they're. Until maybe they're 18 or not at all. And it's not like we, they just Uber places. It's not even like we live in a town that's that.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That easy to take public transportation.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
That's true. Yeah. I, you know, I, I don't get me started on what these kids are doing today. I don't get it. But I don't live in their house, so I don't know. All different circumstances, anxiety level or.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Did somebody have an accident when they were young and they're scared or.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's fair.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
I mean I'm telling you, the feeds that even I get in my Facebook have such a dire experience for my mood. So I don't know what they're getting. And I, I kind of as crazy it was as it was when I grew up. We didn't have that. Right. News didn't come to you? You had to read the paper. Right. Or happen to be in front of the TV at six o'.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Clock. Right. It wasn't getting pushed to you constantly right into your pocket.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Was it happening? Probably. But we weren't hearing about it and thank God we weren't because I Don't know that I would have made it as far as I am now, you know?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
It's scary.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
People want to talk about the world being terrible now, and there's always. Unfortunately, humans will always be humans and there's always going to be terrible things happening, but a lot of scary stuff happening in the 70s and the 80s and 90s. I mean, so there's plenty of. There's always been. People have always thought it's the end of times.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
For thousands of years, that's been just the cycle.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
I can remember being pregnant during the Richard Allen Davis case. I was in Petaluma. Richard Allen Davis is the one that kidnapped Polly Klass.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Oh, okay.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
And when I was pregnant, pretty much giving birth, they were talking about his. His trial. That happened in my town.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
So I was petrified of kidnapping. It's a. It was a real fear.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
You know.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, I believe it.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
So I. It's really your surroundings and I think positivity is greatly undervalued. Although I still feel the doom and gloom and I'm prepared for it, but.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Are you a prepper? You got an underground basement ready to go?
Kathleen Stafford (B):
No, but we were talking about that earlier. I'm definitely like a pes. Well, I don't think I'm a pessimist. I think I'm a realist. Everybody else thinks I'm a pessimist because I.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's what every pessimist thinks, is that they're.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
But I'm so just practical. I think it's like this is. This is a real chance this could happen.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Right. So you better just touch on it and prepare yourself mentally for it, but then move on with your day.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
What's the craziest thing you're prepared for?
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Oh, God, it's. I have bad thought. I'm a knock on wood, like, OCD person. So I'll be. And now at my age, I can't sleep at night, so something will pop into my head and I'll be worried, you know, about my kid who has to travel the next day. And then I, you know, I literally now I've had to start knocking on wood to try to get that thought out of my head so I can move on with the good stuff. But I'm. I'm constantly worried.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's. That's. I think that's a little bit of a mom thing too, because I'm a little worried for my wife then because she's constantly just like imagining these worst case scenarios with our children. You know, it's like we're around bats and we were out carrying disease. Yeah. And then she was worried about one getting into the house and biting our kid in the sleep and them getting rabies and dying. And.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
I mean, I get it. Keep your doors closed. Like, no, like, that's a real thing, right. There's bubonic plague back out. You know, you gotta watch the damn squirrels. I mean, literally, there's crap everywhere. So you do have to. And, you know, it feels better to me as a mom to just tell em. One of my sons works for Marin Municipal Water District, and he's out in the brush, and I go, babe, like, you need to spray your boots and your stuff. And he's looking at me like, once.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
A mom, always a mom.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Mom. I'm like, no, really, like, Lyme disease is like a real thing. It's like, I. I know, mom. We. They give us a kit. We got it. I got it. But unless I say that, you know.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And you gotta get off your mind.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah. When the kids are traveling, when I'm traveling in the plane, I've got this whole thing that I do, right. When I'm. You know, before you have to turn off your phone, I'm texting each one of them separately because if something happens to me, I don't want them comparing their texts from me and seeing the same thing.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I will say something strange that's happened to me is like, I never used to think much about flying, but since having kids, it definitely. Like, I do. Like, what's the. The word Is eluding me. But just, like, I do kind of spiral a little bit. Like I'm saying when I'm saying goodbye to my kids and thinking, like, what if this is the last time I ever say goodbye to them or kiss them or whatever. I do find myself doing that on planes now, and I have to just, like, grin and bear it because I'm like, okay, this isn't rational, but.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
But it kind of is. Right? We're hearing about all these plane crashes every day, so it's as rational as could. Don't do the statistics.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Well, statistically, it's pretty. It isn't very rational. Right.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
I had my high school boyfriend die in a plane crash. And.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And what size plane?
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Well, no, he was. He had his pilot's license.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay, see, that's different.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
I think those bomber, they were like, in an air show. So he was. He was in.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's crazy. That's crazy traumatic.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah. So.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
But that is very different than commercial airlines.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I think way more accidents happen in private planes than they do in commercial.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
I agree with you there, I do. Because we hear it.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
I mean happening all the time.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Most of what you hear.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
If I was rich, I wouldn't be piddling around in a little plane or a helicopter. I'll see you there. I'm taking the. I'll take my car. I'll see you tomorrow.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Well, we are getting close to the end of our time already.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Nice.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
It's been a wonderful conversation. What I'd like to. One thing we haven't talked about that I wanted to touch on really quick is you talked about your kids, you wanting them to get a corporate job. And it's interesting as someone that had a corporate job for 10 years and then has been, or I'm sorry, 20ish years and then has been effectively self employed since then because I do consider being a real estate agent to be relatively self employed because it's your business, even if you're associated with a brokerage or something like that, it's really you that people are buying. And so why, like why that advice and what is. And kind of just like what has been good and what has been bad? You know, being self employed versus working for someone.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Well, and when I say corporate for them, I mean like it could be corporate, it could be union, it could be a government job, a city government.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
A consistent check coming in every two weeks.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yes. Where there's room for growth. I think the reason I say that, and this may come off very sexist, but I have boys and they could get married and their wife or partner could have a child. And that is what I lacked from my partner. He was self employed and worked for his parents restaurant. So I had to continue working when I wished I could have been a little bit more.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
It's the sense of security for their, for their future partner.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
And family.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And family. Interesting. Once again coming back to that theme. Just so much motivated by just like worrying about your family.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah. And wanting them to just have that understanding that they get two weeks vacation, next year they'll get three weeks. I come from where people retired from companies. My current husband retired from HP after I don't know, 32 years or something. Crazy number like I worked for.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
He's kind of the last generation to kind of be like that.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
So I get, I'm behind the times and I have two of my kids who listen to me. One is in the union and one is. Has a government job. And then I have one stubborn entrepreneur that you know, wants to do what he wants to do and doesn't really want to start at A and climb to D. He, you know, wants to do what he wants to do. And I've struggled and struggled, but I've had to really realize. And actually, my best friend's the one that told me. She's like, you want your kids to, you know, have these, work for the city or the county, but yet you're an entrepreneur. Your dad was an entrepreneur.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
What do you.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
It's in the blood.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah. And I. I stopped and looked at that and said, yeah, so I've really laid off. And, you know, he needs to find his way, and that way is not necessarily the way I would have chose for him. But that doesn't mean it's not the right road.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. So much of parenting has to be like, you raise them up to a certain point, and you got to let them fly and figure out their own path.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
One of the books I'm reading right now is. Is called raising your adult children. Keep your mouth shut. And the doormat out, the welcome mat out. So it is a lot of. I mean, really in everything we can't control. Going back to what you said earlier, we can't control what life throws at us, but we can control how we react to that. So I've. I've. I'm. I am learning with age. Yes, I am learning.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's awesome. So that actually brings us to one of the questions I like to ask everyone is what are the one or two books that you either gift or recommend the most to people?
Kathleen Stafford (B):
That one's a great one because I think it does really help us understand the independence that our kids need. The other one is, I just read that Let them by Mel Robbins, that Let them theory, which also is. I think now that I'm in my 50s, I'm kind of understanding that I really don't give a crap what people think of me. You know, if they're watching me on my. My Tuesday little video that I do and they're, like, making fun of me, I don't care anymore. You know, it makes me happy.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
You know, that's what I want to do. And. But I don't think I was that way in my youth. Right. It's all. I mean, that's perplexing, having people worrying, oh, my God, am I gonna look stupid? I don't care anymore.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, I relate to that a lot. I think, when I was. And. And it's hard because actually, my wife and I were just talking about this last night. We seen in our son, like, huge people pleaser. Growing up really care about what people think, especially getting praise from, like, authority figures and stuff like that was a big deal my whole entire life, and I see that in my kids. So then it's like, okay, how do I. Like from a parenting perspective, it's actually not always terrible because then it means your kid, like, wants to do well in school, doesn't want. Doesn't want to get in a bunch of trouble. But also cultivating, like, you also don't want them making decisions in their life because of what other people think as opposed to being independent. And it took me a long time to get to that place where I was like, okay, I don't care what my family thinks. I don't care what anyone else thinks. Like, I'm going to go do what I feel like I'm supposed to be doing. And it took a lot to get there, and I don't think I would have gotten there unless I. If it wasn't for my wife, which isn't always an interesting thing.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Well, and you. You know that. And you're seeing that in your son. So it. Celebrate the. The mistakes in his life.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
And. And show him what he learned and go, look, it's. It's okay. It's okay that you just broke this because now you know what not to do it.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Exactly.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
So give him the praise for not just the good stuff, but the bad stuff. And the choice that he made when he did that. He came to you and told you, dad, I goofed and I broke the window.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. I think that is. That's also what my wife and I talked about, like, is related to that. Was that he. Because I know what it's like to be that way. Hopefully I'll be able to help, like, struggle with it less than I did.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You know, because my wife's like, she doesn't care. She was born not caring what people thought. And so she just, like, I don't relate to it at all. I. I just do not relate to being motivated by that so well, that everybody's different. Yeah. Also the power of, you know, co parenting. Right. Having a partner that you bring different things to the table for your kids. So the last question, because we are at. At our time, is if you could put one thing on a billboard over the highway that everyone could see, like, what piece of wisdom would you want to impart to people?
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Something that my dad raised me with. And that's basically nothing easy is worth having. And I used to tell my boys when they were teenagers, I'm like, dude, nothing easy. Nothing, and I mean nothing easy is worth having because it really, like if, if something is worth it, you're going to work for it.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Yeah. So that, that there's no such thing as hard as. There's no such thing as luck, just hard work. Right.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
That's right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Absolutely.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
That's it.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Well, Kathleen, it has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for coming on. I do want to ask how, how can people find you online? Feel free to give a plug to anything that you may want to encourage people to check out.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Yeah, I mean, they can find me on Facebook. Kathleen Rose Stafford. I do my little Tuesday reels about positivity in our community. Community. And my website is Stafford Family team, hence because I was supposed to have a family business. But that's okay. We still keep it. StaffordFamilyTeam.com is my real estate website.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Awesome. And you can find me at flywheelconsulting Co. Thank you again for being on.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
Thanks for having me.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Look forward to chatting again soon.
Kathleen Stafford (B):
All right, Sam.