Selling with Heart, Leading by Example
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Michele LeSage has spent four decades helping organizations—from construction firms to Lucasfilm—turn branded merchandise into memorable, referral-generating experiences. In this conversation, she shares how creativity beats catalogs, why “sales without compassion” fails, and the routines and networks that keep her business moving. We also cover practical promo strategy (like why sticky-note cubes are sneaky-powerful), succession planning, work-life rhythms, and the happiness mindset she’d put on a billboard.
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Michele’s Journey Into Promotions
Creativity, Client Care, and Cookies
Staying Consistent and Leading by Example
The Value of Tangible Marketing
Life Balance, Self-Care & Staying Energized
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Jonathan Mahrt (A):
This is on the Flywheel, a podcast where each week we talk to entrepreneurs and professionals about the practical things they do to build and keep momentum in their personal and professional lives. Hello and welcome to on the Flywheel. I'm your host, Jonathan Mart with Flywheel Consulting. And today my guest is Michelle Lesage from Image Masters. Thank you for being on today, Michelle.
Michele LeSage (B):
It's so nice to be here, Jonathan.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So this is your first podcast episode. It's a big deal.
Michele LeSage (B):
It's huge. I don't know what I'm doing here.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
For our many listeners. No, it'll be great. It's just a conversation just to learn about you and, you know, the things that you've done in your personal and professional life to make you successful. So I always like to start with just asking you a little bit about your background, what you currently do, you know, in terms of career, and how you got to where you are today.
Michele LeSage (B):
Okay. I am a Navy brat. And so my seven brothers and sisters and I, we were born in different states. We ended up in California in 1972. Decided I wanted to be in accounting. And so I walked in the door at Pangeo, which is a promotional company in downtown petaluma, back in 1984. Most of you probably weren't alive, but.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I was almost alive.
Michele LeSage (B):
Almost ish. My point exactly. And they were looking for an accounting person that was right up my alley. It was fun. It was a promotional company. It was young, and did that for about a year. And then they needed a salesperson, and I was told that I would be a fabulous salesperson. I'm like, okay, I'll give it a try. And I actually loved what I did. And here I am some 40 years later doing the exact same thing. I closed pangea back in December 2019. Great timing with the pandemic coming up. Found a job in a month. And now I focus totally on the things I love. I love being a consultant and a creative person who has so much experience in the industry. And I work for a company called Image Masters, and we actually do the decoration. We apply the inks and threads to garments and ship them out all over the world.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's very cool. So I want to talk about a couple things. First off, I did not know that you had seven brothers and sisters.
Michele LeSage (B):
Yes.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
What's the, like, youngest. Oldest. What's the age spread between?
Michele LeSage (B):
My brother's 70 and my youngest sister is 59.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay. So there's a pretty good. That's not too bad. That's pretty close together.
Michele LeSage (B):
They're very close.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Together. That's pretty close together. That's a. That's a lot of siblings.
Michele LeSage (B):
It's fun.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. So, okay, so you pack up and move. I mean, are you. Did you all fit in one vehicle? Did you have to have multiple vehicles? Like, what was that?
Michele LeSage (B):
Like, That's a very good question. You know, some of us flew, depending how far we moved, from Maryland to California was the last one. And my dad and brothers drove, and my sisters and I flew with my mother.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay, that must have been. Yeah. I only have two kids. I cannot imagine. And I grew up with one of four, so I can only imagine adding three more into there. That must have been absolute chaos.
Michele LeSage (B):
It was wonderful. Absolutely. I can't imagine a small family.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. So you. You have been doing this promotional stuff for a really long time. One of the things I like to ask people about is what is the best part and the worst part about what you do?
Michele LeSage (B):
Oh, that's so simple. The best part is when they allow me to be a creative person. Of course, I can sell a pen with a logo on it or pads of paper or embroidered caps. But. But when someone says, hey, Michelle, I have a budget. I have three months. Do your thing. And that's when I just thrive because I love creating completely custom items. And I've done it for Lucasfilm. I've done it for Skywalker Ranch. I do it for very large construction companies like Dutra. They allowed me to just recently to do a beautiful chair, totally customized. The worst thing. Oh, Michelle, it's Monday, and I need 100 mugs by Friday. And by the way, I need them in Florida. Okay, I'll get right on that.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So my. When you were at Pangea, my family's business used you in the past, and that was not an uncommon conversation to have because we'd always do stuff at the end of the year.
Michele LeSage (B):
It was Christmas time, and you would change your logo and you'd have different eggs and you'd have different years on it. How do I remember that, Jonathan?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So it's not exclusively my fault in the past that that happened, but it always happens.
Michele LeSage (B):
Just so you know, sometimes people forget the holidays are coming.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Man, it sneaks up on you. You know, sometimes I like for those kinds of things, like the thing that you do once a year, you set the reminder on your calendar, like two months ahead of time. It pops up on your calendar. You're like, oh, I've got to do that for sure. And then you let another month and.
Michele LeSage (B):
A half go by or more, and it's December 1st. Oh, by the way, I need them by the 17th. I said, okay, we'll get on that. But that's kind of my busiest season too, between October and the end of the year.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. So what is you mentioned the best part being being just kind of having the freedom to be creative. What's. What are some of like the coolest things or the things you're most proud of doing over the years for people?
Michele LeSage (B):
I love working at Sonoma State University because the or outreach program, they like to do something a little different. When the kids decide they want to go to Sonoma State or they've been accepted, remember they get accepted a couple other colleges. So they try to send them promotional stuff that's a little bit different. You know, everybody can get a T shirt, but, you know, they have pencil bags. You can call them pencil bags, but we created a much nicer one calling it a tech bag.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Oh.
Michele LeSage (B):
So I love working with orientation at Sonoma State and outreach and alumni because they have time, they have a budget, and I can be very creative. I've done customers duffel bags for Lucasfilm and she thought it looked great. And I wasn't even done yet. And then I lined it with all the Star wars characters.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Oh, on the inside.
Michele LeSage (B):
On the inside.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's very cool.
Michele LeSage (B):
And you know, when you allow me to have some fun, I did some custom lunch boxes. If you ever have a one to one with me. And I don't know if I've ever done that for you or I'm prospecting. I have an image master's lunchbox. You know, I love to cook and I fill the lunchbox.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
She brought me cookies this morning for this.
Michele LeSage (B):
And if I knew there was someone else here, like you should have told me, I would have brought him something.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I apologize. You know what? I'll give him my cookies and we'll have to have another one to one, obviously.
Michele LeSage (B):
Jonathan, I think I have another bag inside.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Of course you do.
Michele LeSage (B):
So we'll send that up with you. How about that? But I fill that with cookies and I just leave it when I'm prospecting and I come back three months later with another one and just leave it off. You're the cookie lady. That's what I'm known for.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So that's your secret to success, is just cookies?
Michele LeSage (B):
It's cookies. I think I need to give myself a little more credit for that.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And I by no means tried to downplay it either.
Michele LeSage (B):
Kidding.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Can you, anytime you make something Star wars related, can you just make one extra one for me and Then I'll swing by and grab it.
Michele LeSage (B):
Licensing infringement.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
No one has to know. Michelle, so you've been doing this a long time. Before this, we were having a conversation about. Well, I won't actually, I won't say that. But you are probably one of the most experienced people in your industry. And so what do you think? That's a long time to have been successful. What do you think is what makes you different versus other people that have been doing it?
Michele LeSage (B):
I think it's experience. I think it's knowing product. Because every week I research for one hour a new product. So I make sure I'm at the forefront of what I mean, I look at everything not to buy what they have, but to take that and make something different with it. So having experience, knowing the thousands of different T shirt styles and garment styles. If you showed me a pen, I probably could find that pen for you within minutes of where.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Who.
Michele LeSage (B):
Who makes that pen?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Who makes it interesting?
Michele LeSage (B):
Absolutely. And like I said, I'm one of the older people. I know you're trying to be kind. You look great, you're very sweet. But I've been in the industry a very, very long time and I am planning for retirement in the next year or so. I am currently training a new salesperson and I have this young man, his name is Greg, and we have two years of training. Because I do not want to disappoint my clients that I've had for 30 plus years, many of them, and give them some who's totally green. I want him to excel and I want him to service them because I love my clients and, and I just don't want to disappoint them.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I think there's. That's probably, I would assume an element of your success too, is that you care really deeply.
Michele LeSage (B):
Oh, I care very deeply about all my clients and what they purchase. I mean, in fact, somebody said, I think we'll get this. And I said, open for suggestions. And I explained why that idea might not be the best idea. But again, we all know beauty's in the eyes of beholder. Right. So I'll throw it out on the, on the table and they'll go, michelle, you're absolutely right. My idea was horrible. But. But I'll go either way. I mean, I. My job is to make the client's dream come true.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Michele LeSage (B):
And if it's with their item or with something, I suggest it doesn't matter. I just want their, their campaign or whatever they're trying to do to be a complete success.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I think I Think that's also what probably what people are paying for when they work with you too, is that experience, as opposed to just going up and, you know, googling a business and calling them up. Is there getting that level of taste and experience as well?
Michele LeSage (B):
I think you're right there. But I think even more so that when you have clients that are happy with you and it'll happen with your business too, they're going to refer you without even knowing they're referring you. You know, they'll just say, oh, I work with this great gal at Image Masters or something, and that's how I grow my business. I don't do cold calling. I mean, the, the cookie thing, if I'm. I love construction companies. I just love working with, I don't know, men, I guess. I worked at Foreman Plumbing for years, many, many moons ago, and I loved the creativity that I could do with them. And they're just a very, very fun industry to work with.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Michele LeSage (B):
You know, entertainment companies like Skywalker, Lucasfilm or the Charles Scholz Museum, I get to be creative for them too, because they have a store.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. What a contrast, by the way, going from construction to Lucasfilm in the entertainment industry. That's a very like, very like blue collar, salt of the earth folks to, you know, much more of a, you know, white collar kind of business.
Michele LeSage (B):
It's different, but they're all fun.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, yeah, they're all fun. That's probably. I would think that's probably also part of the allure, is that you get to interact with so many different kinds of businesses and so many different people from different walks of life.
Michele LeSage (B):
Absolutely. And nonprofits are. Are wonderful for our industry. I mean, I'm working with a nonprofit right now, and we finally agreed on one of the items. We have several of them, but, you know, everybody, you know, those cubes of sticky notes that, you know, maybe are four by four, the imprint area on that guys and gals, it's four huge sides, and each of those sticky pages has your logo on it. That is never going to leave that desk until it's gone.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And if you're like me, it may be 10 years that it sits on your desk.
Michele LeSage (B):
So you don't write.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I don't. I mean, I always think, oh, I love to have a blanket block of sticky notes, but then I use like, you know, one every couple weeks or something, you know, so.
Michele LeSage (B):
But. But knowing strategically where to put your mission statement or your website, because if they're trying to raise money, you don't do it at the top. Right. You spread it around so at the bottom, you know, because.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Oh, it's going to be there the whole time.
Michele LeSage (B):
Absolutely. So marketing is about kind of knowing how people use promotional products.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Well, I think that's maybe an interesting thing to talk about, you know, from a marketing perspective. Why do people want to do promotional products? Like, why is it important to, you know, give people branded items, to have branded clothes and things as opposed to, you know, spending money? Not that they're mutually exclusive, but like, why would people want to spend money on that in addition to whatever kind of marketing that they're doing?
Michele LeSage (B):
The difference between promotional products and other things is promotional products are tangible items. And so every time you see them, you get a feeling whether it's good or bad about the company. Right, yeah. But it reminds them of the experience they had with you, and they also remind you of the products that you purchased or what ones are available. So promotional products remind them of you, your products and services, and. And it keeps you on the forefront, not just for a reorder, but for referrals.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, that's true. That's true. I think, I think there is an element of, you know, you want to do a good job for people not just because, like, you want your customer to be happy or, or because you just personally want to do a good job, but also because happy customers are part of your marketing team at that point. Right?
Michele LeSage (B):
Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's so much easier to grow your business with happy customers than to go knock on doors. And at my age, I don't do that.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, so your business is built really entirely on just in person networking and referrals. Right. Have you ever done cold calling or anything like that?
Michele LeSage (B):
I don't think I've ever done cold calling. Calling 30 calls a day or something. A lot of people, when you're brand new in the industry, that's how you start. But I started with a small client base back in the 80s, but it's really, really grown to a million plus dollars book of business. And I'm very proud of doing it, but I sure had fun doing it all the way. I'm really gonna have a hard time retiring someday, I think, but I will.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Find something else to keep you busy.
Michele LeSage (B):
Exactly.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So we've kind of touched on these things. But you have made multiple mentions in our conversation about like, putting things on your calendar, setting time aside to do things. So how do you like in terms of your approach to work? Not just like your approach to customers, but your approach to work? What things do you think you do that are essential for being successful.
Michele LeSage (B):
I'm really consistent, you know, if you're supposed to work from 8 to 5, I really try to work from 8 to 5. I used to work in a production facility, but now I work from my home, which changed everything. That was like eye opening. But you get a routine and you just follow the routine. It's just being consistent, you know, I love networking. You know that, Jonathan, I met you through networking. I love being part of the Chamber of Commerce. I am in bni. I'm in provisors. All of them force you to be with people. And force sounds like a terrible word, but it's. It's not. It gets you there, and then it's what you do with that after.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, there's an element of your paying to be a part of these groups. And so there's an accountability that comes with it. Maybe that's a better word than forcing. But like, you know, you're saying, oh, I. I'm agreeing. I'm signing up to be at these meetings once a month, once a week, whatever it is. And so enforcing you into. You're carving out a time in your schedule and saying, hey, I'm gonna go do these things.
Michele LeSage (B):
Absolutely. And I'm always on the leadership team. And so you have to lead by example. And I think I do that. You know.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, that's. That's. I think that is really. That is really important. I think a lot of leaders miss that. You know, they don't. They say what. What is the saying? Do what I do as I say, not as.
Michele LeSage (B):
Not as I do, not as I do.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You know, I don't think from. At least for. Maybe as a. Maybe as a parent, that's one thing, but even probably applies to parenting. But for sure, in leadership, you know, if you're not setting the example, then how can you expect people to want to follow?
Michele LeSage (B):
Absolutely.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Because. Go ahead.
Michele LeSage (B):
And if you sign up for these things, you know, you want to get something out of it. And it's not just business. I mean, I've grown friendships from it. My very best friend I met at BNI probably 17 years ago.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And for those that don't know, BNI stands is business Networking International, I think, which is just a. It's referral networking group.
Michele LeSage (B):
Absolutely.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
It has chapters all over the country in the world.
Michele LeSage (B):
And Jonathan and I are in different chapters, but we are in chapters.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's true. Yes, it is. And it's interesting because I, you know, to touch on BNI for one quick second. I've gotten A lot of. I expected, you know, I joined BNI because I'm like, okay, I want to, you know, network with people, give and get referrals. Right. But there's a lot of intangible things that came from it than I. That I didn't expect. In terms of forcing you to, like, think about your business every single week, about how you're marketing your business, about what's working, what's not working, you know how to talk about your business better. There's a lot of practice that came with those things, in addition to, like a little bit of a public speaking element of it and just being comfortable being able to give an elevator pitch about your business, like on the fly and talk about it.
Michele LeSage (B):
Absolutely. And I think there's other things. I mean, if you really listen to the people in your chapters or groups, they offer tidbits of information about insurance and auto repair and things that I would never think about. So I'm like, oh, that's a tidbit of information.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's true. I do. Someone spoke to that. We. We have an estate planner in our planning attorney in our group. She shares tidbits about the industry and things to look for and all that kind of stuff. And another member of our group had a family member that passed away and it was kind of messy and they. And he was like, he literally said during one of our meetings, I was able to navigate that a lot better because of everything I learned just hearing you every week talk about estate planning.
Michele LeSage (B):
Absolutely. So if we open our ears, we really do learn a lot.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yes. Something I try and keep in mind that, you know that. That Ivan Meisner, who started bni, says, you have two ears, one mouth. Use them proportionally. Yes, yes. Because I. I'm not always the best at listening, so I have to be much more intentional about. Okay. Active listening, keep my mouth shut, don't talk over people. So.
Michele LeSage (B):
Absolutely. And it's hard to do, you know, it's hard to do, but especially if.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You'Re wired to be a gabber, you know, So I want to. In kind of the business discussion part of it. We've maybe touched on it a little bit already. But just what do you think most people get wrong in your. In your industry or business.
Michele LeSage (B):
Get.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Or business in general?
Michele LeSage (B):
Yeah. I think some people are just driven by numbers and they just sell without compassion. You know, they just do it because it's a job. But I never thought of my work as a job. I enjoy what I do, so I can't say I have to go to My job. I don't know how many times in the 40 some years I said, I have to go to work today. I just go, I'm working today. And there's not all good days. We all know that. But I would say that 90% percent of my life in the promotional world has been fun. And I think if work is fun, you're going to excel at it.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I really like the phrase you. You said to us, sales without compassion is. That's kind of a powerful. That's probably the. Ultimately the difference between feeling like you had a good sales experience or a bad sales experience.
Michele LeSage (B):
Absolutely. I mean, if it can be fun and, you know, somebody's on your team and they're gonna know. They know that you're really gonna take care of them. It's gonna arrive on time, and they trust that you do that. That's everything, you know, that's everything about sales or any kind of relationship. I mean, we all want people to love and depend on us, and the gate goes both ways, you know, and when you have somebody in your corner, it's easy to rely on them, and they'll call you over and over again.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, absolutely. I. I love that. And I think it's really profound, too. People. When people. I've always had a little bit of an issue with. I mean, I understand it, but I don't agree with it, is when people say, oh, thank God it's Friday. You know, because I'm like, I don't. Yeah, there's long weeks, and sometimes I'm looking forward to, like, relaxing. But to me, more of what they're saying is, like, Monday through Friday kind of sucks all the time, and I'm looking forward only to the weekend. And I think that's a. You know, not everyone may have that privilege. People may be stuck in different circumstances. I, you know, I want to preface that by saying. But yeah, if. If, you know, if whatever it is, two thirds of your life, you're miserable for at least eight hours a day or only a right above miserable, that's not a very fun way to live.
Michele LeSage (B):
It is not. And I was lucky to fall into something that I really, really loved.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Yeah. And I. I think I've been lucky as well. And the things that I've done, even when I was working in my family business and now doing my own thing, both circumstances, I always enjoyed work. It was hard lots of times, and there were times when I needed a break, but in general, like, I never struggled to get out of bed to go to work.
Michele LeSage (B):
Me neither. Me Neither. But then I'm a morning person.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Well, there is an element of that, you know. Of course, of course. So I want to transition just a little bit into talking about kind of some more of the personal life things. One of the questions is, are you a morning person or a night person? You just answered that. And then related to that is, do you have any kinds of like routines or rhythms. You talked about consistency earlier to your day that you try and stick to that you feel like help make you successful?
Michele LeSage (B):
Everything in my life is.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That'S great.
Michele LeSage (B):
You know, I have my certain times I get up in the morning, depending on what's the activities. I definitely eat at the same time of the day, but it's for health reasons. I do. I either swim or I dance or I walk each night. So I have schedules for that. And the minute I let that go, I don't do the things that make me happy. So if it's not on my schedule, I don't do it. And I get sucked into doing other things that I should be taking care of myself. Sometimes my son reminds me my hand is not spring loaded. Meaning, mom, you don't need to volunteer for everything.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yes, yes. I've actually had that realized recently. You know, for a long time I was like, oh, I want to get involved in more things. And then over the last, I don't know, four or five months, I'm like, oh, I don't, I can't say yes to anything else. I'm. If I'm going to have space for, you know, my family and all the other things, like, I got to like, I can't take on anything else unless I'm going to give something else up.
Michele LeSage (B):
Absolutely. Somebody goes, you're not going to go to this event. And I said, or dancing. Dancing.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. I mean, sometimes it's like I, you know, this is gonna seem somewhat silly, but I have a weekly board game night that I do with some friends now due to life stuff. I don't make it every week to that, so. But sometimes when everything else aligns and it's like, choose between this, this one random networking event or go do my board game night. I've done lots of networking events. There's going to be more. I'm going to go to my board game night because I haven't been in two weeks.
Michele LeSage (B):
Like, you know, we need to fill our hearts.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Michele LeSage (B):
You know, we really do need to fill our hearts because then we won't, we won't give our hearts away if we don't have anything to give oh, that's a good.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Another good quote right there. Is that a Michelle. A Michelle Lesage original right there?
Michele LeSage (B):
I think it's something learned after all these years. How about that?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, I'm with you. If I don't put things, what I find is if I don't put things in my calendar and schedule them, then they just don't. Then they just don't happen. Like, at least for me, that's out of sight, out of mind. I won't get to it now. Where the challenge lies for me is that I have a family with young children. And that's a much more. Has a much more chaotic impact on schedule. And that's where I found. That's where I struggle right now is to say, hey, like to plan for things, but then also balance that against, like, you know, kids are a lot more variable in terms of their needs. You know, you can't always schedule everything perfectly for your own children.
Michele LeSage (B):
Oh, absolutely. But I have two best friends, and one was a buyer at a company for years and became my best friend. And the other one I met at BNI and is my best friend. So we get together and we put something on our calendar for one month away that we all agree on because we have children, grandchildren, and businesses, and it's hard to do that, but we make a commitment to each other and I mean, we talk and text and do all that stuff in between, but we need to put the things on our calendars that are important.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Absolutely. So how are you as a person with more experience in life, how are you with very kind technology? Because I'll tell you, my dad insists on using a flip phone still.
Michele LeSage (B):
Well, I have a new iPhone and I check my emails and texts on it. Everything is on my calendar. It has an alarm. I have probably 17 alarms that are constant.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Wow.
Michele LeSage (B):
Wherever the meeting is. And I just turn them on and off as needed. If I have an upcoming appointment, it gets on the calendar with alerts. By the way, I'm good with an Excel spreadsheet.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So you've adapted with the times as much as possible.
Michele LeSage (B):
As much as possible. Social media is absolutely. No is a no. My son's joke was, if you're wishing my mother a happy birthday, she'll never see it.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Do you. Are you. Are you like a physical card person at all or handwritten notes or any of that kind of thing?
Michele LeSage (B):
Yeah, I don't knew that. I don't use the CS CRM program that our company likes. I can't believe I'm saying that out.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Loud on this, but I will send this straight to your boss. Please do just this clip, nothing else.
Michele LeSage (B):
And so I still use paper, you know, it works for me. I see it. I don't want to have to go somewhere and look for it. But at the end of the day, what I didn't cross off, that I wanted to get done that day ends up on my new it's at the top and it really works for me. But I encourage Greg, who I'm training to use their systems.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I am a CRM user for my business because I won't remember anything about anyone.
Michele LeSage (B):
But you have to put on your notes to go look at it, right?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's. Well, if you're using it every day and you can, you know, you can set reminders in it, it's like popping up right in your face. So yes, yes. If you weren't in it every day then yeah, you would still need to be reminding yourself to use it.
Michele LeSage (B):
So it doesn't work for me, but that's totally fine. I'm good with emails and stuff like that.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So yeah, I found I've had a lot, like a very. I'm a little bit, depending on who you ask, I'm either a little or a lot absent minded. So if I don't write things down then they just disappear into the ether until I wake up in a cold sweat and saying, did I forget to do that? And so I've gone on a journey between being all digital to writing stuff down. And I think there is an element of handwriting. Stuff does stick in your brain better.
Michele LeSage (B):
I think it does too. Typing, it's different than handwriting.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And the best success, I feel like the best thing that I found is actually to have like a digital list of things that you need to do and then daily you actually write out what you're trying to do for that day. So like one is like a repository of everything and then you go through the process of filtering it and prioritizing it by writing it down what you need to do.
Michele LeSage (B):
I think so too.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
It's kind of my sweet spot at least.
Michele LeSage (B):
But Alexa has become my best friend. Just so you know, my son says, mom's best friend is Alexa. Because I'll say in the middle of the night when I wake up, I go, oh, I have a meeting with Jonathan at 9 o'. Clock. Alexa, remind me to leave at 8:30 to go see Jonathan.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, I use the Siri reminders on my phone a lot for that kind of stuff. Just to be like, for time sensitive things that I know that I Will forget. Especially like an hour from now. I need to remember to call this person back, you know?
Michele LeSage (B):
Absolutely. Because that hour seems like it was 10 minutes.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Oh, yeah.
Michele LeSage (B):
So you need to. I set that all the time.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Michele LeSage (B):
All the time.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. I just know that I need an external system for remembering because I will not remember until it's too late.
Michele LeSage (B):
Whatever works, right?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. I think. I think that's the biggest thing is, like, there's all this stuff on the Internet about productivity and how to be more productive and there's all these books about it, but really is. It is. Everyone needs to go on their own journey, learn about themselves, what they're good at, what they're not good at, and kind of take all the bits and pieces because there's no, you know, whatever someone's talking about is like, that's a system that works for them. And the thing about a lot of these things is that lots of times one person, most of the time one person's system, if taken and copied and paste to another person, does not perfectly work for that person. Because everyone is different. Everyone's brain is different. Your job's different. The demands you. You know, like, one of the reasons that I don't rely on as heavily on papers I'd like to, especially when I was working in my family's business, is I'm up and down. I'm not sitting in front of a desk all the time and so trying to. But I need to be able to, like, input tasks. I need to be able to, like, write things down, you know, it ended up I went much more digital because I always had my phone in my pocket, trying to. I tried carrying notebooks around and everything, and they would just, like, disintegrate in my pocket and all this kind of stuff. So you have to know what your. What works for you and then tweak it over time and say, oh, that worked. It didn't. That worked. This is good. That wasn't. And keep refining it as opposed to just trying to do exactly what everyone else is doing.
Michele LeSage (B):
I concur 100%. 100%.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. So that's been a personal journey of mine. So I want to talk now a little bit about. You've mentioned a little bit of the activities, but I'd like to also talk to kind of understand, like, how do you recharge your batteries outside of work? We've kind of touched on it a little bit. So that you have. You have the energy to get up and go to work every day?
Michele LeSage (B):
Well, I have an abundance of energy I get up early, I work all day, but I've never drank a cup of coffee in my life. Can you imagine me on coffee? Really think about it?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I mean, I can. That is a.
Michele LeSage (B):
That.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I think you've told me that before, but I had forgotten. That is. That is crazy, because I definitely am a caffeine person.
Michele LeSage (B):
Yeah. So. And I don't drink Coke or anything like that either. So water is pretty much my thing.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Zero caffeine.
Michele LeSage (B):
Zero caffeine. So energy level is really high. But to recharge my battery, I love to swim or do water aerobics, and I make sure I do that at least three or four times a week. And I love to ballroom dance, and I find that very. It's challenging, don't get me wrong, because you got to actually remember, and then you got to make your feet and your arms do it, you know, but it's. It's good for us, you know, and it makes me feel really good. And sometimes I go. And I go, oh, I don't really want to do that. But when I get home, I'm so glad that I did do it.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Yeah. The. So it's important to stay active, I guess, is really what it really is.
Michele LeSage (B):
It's good for us, you know, it's good for our minds and our bodies and our health and it's good for the soul, you know, just to be happy.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. 100%.
Michele LeSage (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So what is. What is one piece of advice you would give to your younger self or someone who is starting out in your business or just in business in general?
Michele LeSage (B):
Find a job that's not a job job. Find a job that you love to do, you know, and love your family and friends. I mean, that's really, really important. And they're the priority in my life. Yeah, absolutely.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Yeah, That's. That's something I've tried to tell myself, too, is when, like, the end of the day always comes faster than I'm expecting in terms of, like, how much I want to get done during that day or how much is still left, you know, on the. On that checklist. And then I have to realize, well, I could keep working, but also I'm coming home. I have got an hour, maybe two hours before my kids go to bed. Like, they're little. They're only going to be this little. I'm always going to have more work to do. And if maybe my business isn't going, you know, things aren't happening as quickly as I want. Right. I'm not going to be on my Deathbed wishing that I'd worked more. You know, it's going to be wishing I. Probably wishing I'd spent more time with my family.
Michele LeSage (B):
That's what my mother said on her deathbed. She said, she said, just remember there'll always be more work.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Michele LeSage (B):
You know, not always more time.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, yeah.
Michele LeSage (B):
You know, so. Yeah, I think that's really important time you just don't get more of. We all have the exact same amount of time. It's how we spend. Spend that time that's important.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
100%. Yeah. And that's what I, that's what I try and, you know, tell myself is because I've. Yeah. I've never been in a situation where there wasn't more work to do. Like it just.
Michele LeSage (B):
I have never either. Never. I've never said, I finish this, I'll be done for a week. Oh, sure.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. It's never happened. It's always going to be there when you come back, you know, and also when you're gone, like your work doesn't care in some level. Like the business is gonna. I mean, unless it's completely and only dependent on you. But generally, like, if you work for someone, that business is going to continue whether you're there or not.
Michele LeSage (B):
Absolutely.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You know, you could have been the most important employee, but the business has to keep going on and at some point you're gonna fade into a distant memory and the only people are going to remember you, hopefully are your family.
Michele LeSage (B):
Exactly.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Michele LeSage (B):
And your dearest friends.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Dearest friends. That's also true. Absolutely. Yes. That's an important one to consider as well.
Michele LeSage (B):
And then you. I always make sure I go on a vacation a year, at least one.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. To recharge. Also to recharge the batteries.
Michele LeSage (B):
Yeah. But it's not like I leave my computer behind, so. So I'm not good at that. Okay. But yeah, I'll check my emails in the morning and I'll check them in the night, but I'm not going to sit there all day.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right, right. Are you like a tropical vacation, kind of like sit on the beach, relax person or are you like. I booked out activities and doing both.
Michele LeSage (B):
Both.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay.
Michele LeSage (B):
You know, so a little bit of relaxation. But I usually go with my grandkids. I always take one of my children and their families with me. So they keep me very, very busy on vacation.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, grandkids will do that.
Michele LeSage (B):
They will do that, you know, but I sneak up and I go for like my 5 mile walk up the beach. Beach. Before they even know Nana's Awake.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Oh, that's. There's nothing better than a walk on the beach early in the morning.
Michele LeSage (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Everything's quiet. The sun's rising, you know, just the waves.
Michele LeSage (B):
Yep.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Absolutely. Time to go. Fly out right now.
Michele LeSage (B):
Let's go.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So we're getting close to the end here. I did really want to touch on you mentioned. I ask. I tend to ask everyone about work life balance because I think that's an interesting perspective to get. You talk about bringing your laptop on. On vacation with you. So what's kind of. What's your perspective on work life balance? How do you, how do you navigate that? How do you manage that?
Michele LeSage (B):
I. I prioritize what is really important. I have to say to myself, Michelle, you are on vacation. Okay? So you have to remind yourself that. So I have an assistant, which is great. So even if you're in line to do something, you can push things forward and so you can really manage some work on vacation without being there the whole time. But I do put restrictions on myself. I set a timer. I set a timer because timers have.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
A powerful impact on your life.
Michele LeSage (B):
They do, but you could sit there for say, an hour, but it's really been three. So I just really set a timer. I'm going to get as much as I can done in that hour. And my clients know I'm on vacation and they really don't want me to work on vacation, but they still send stuff. Right, right. So, you know, I do what I can to keep it going, but we need to take care of ourselves first or they don't have me at all.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's true. That's true. That's a good, good point.
Michele LeSage (B):
You know, and they're working equally as hard on their end too.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So.
Michele LeSage (B):
Yeah, I don't know. It's just take care of you because you can take care of others.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, absolutely. So, so our bonus questions here, I asked. There's two. Two questions I like to ask people. One is, can you think of any books that you've either recommended or gifted to people the most?
Michele LeSage (B):
You don't want to hear the book I read, but to each their own. Oh, my gosh. I given many sales books away, but now the under pressure, I can't.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, I know. I'm putting you on. I'm putting you on the side.
Michele LeSage (B):
Oh, my God. I'll have to come back to you on that. But that's. I'm sorry, I just can't remember.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Oh, no, that's. That's totally fine. Yeah, we'll. We'll put them in the. You can get back to me. We'll put them in the show notes.
Michele LeSage (B):
Oh, perfect.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
In the description. So people.
Michele LeSage (B):
Oh, perfect. No one will look or see.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Excuse you. Excuse me. Michelle, lots of people are listening and watching this.
Michele LeSage (B):
No, I know that, but are they gonna go look at the show notes? I don't know.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I mean, people. Do people look. Yeah, yeah, I link to you in the show notes as well so people can find you.
Michele LeSage (B):
Oh, well, there you go.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I'm also promoting you.
Michele LeSage (B):
Well, thank you, Jonathan.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You've given me. So the last question is, you've given me a lot of good quotes already in this, but if you could put like a something up on a. Something up on a billboard over the freeway that everyone can see, what would you want to say to people on that billboard?
Michele LeSage (B):
We're all placed on the earth to be happy.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's a good one.
Michele LeSage (B):
Make sure you work at making yourself happy because you have that to share with others.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's. I like that. I like that.
Michele LeSage (B):
And I like to be a happy person. I'm seldom unhappy, and so I think happiness projects and the world is drawn to happy people.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That is a wonderful perspective because I think people focus on the negative a lot.
Michele LeSage (B):
I think they do. But my cup is always half full.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I love that. And I love that you lean into it as well, that you don't apologize for that.
Michele LeSage (B):
You got it, babe.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Well, Michelle, thank you so much for being on today. I had a blast chatting with you. Where can people. I want to give everyone an opportunity to let people know, like where they can find you online if they're interested in checking you out. Image. Image masters.
Michele LeSage (B):
Yeah, imagemasters.com.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay.
Michele LeSage (B):
You know.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Michele LeSage (B):
And. And we'll throw pretty much a phone number and an email address is pretty much how you get me. I'm not a big social media person. That's why I hesitated there.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay. I know. You made that very clear. That's okay.
Michele LeSage (B):
I did. But. ImageMasters.com and ask for Michelle. And ask for Michelle and she will.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Take care of you and make sure you're happy.
Michele LeSage (B):
Happiness is wonderful. Thank you, Jonathan. It's been fun.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Thank you so much for being on today.
Michele LeSage (B):
Okay, see you later.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
See you later.
Michele LeSage (B):