How to build a foundation for success
Summary
In this episode, I sit down with Ryan Larrabure from Larrabure Construction and Design. Ryan shares his inspiring journey from starting as a painter in Petaluma to running a successful construction business. We delve into the importance of finding the right people, offering opportunities for growth, and the challenges of managing a small business. Ryan's passion for design and his unique approach to business management shine through as we discuss the ups and downs of the construction industry.
Topics
- Ryan’s early days: From painting to accounting, and finally starting his own business
- Realizing a passion for management over construction
- Challenges of retaining seasonal workers and transitioning them into full-time roles
- Strategies for keeping employees engaged and loyal
- Navigating the complexities of running a small business and maintaining quality
- The importance of focusing on core services and firing bad customers
- Managing remote operations and effective delegation
- Ryan’s business philosophy: Prioritizing good people and smart growth
- Balancing work and family life as a small business owner
- Ryan’s favorite books and continuous learning habits
Links & Resources
- Books mentioned on this episode
- Ryan Larrabure - Website
- Jonathan Mahrt - LinkedIn, Instagram, Website
Thank you for listening
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of On the Flywheel! If you enjoyed our discussion with Ryan Larrabure, please rate, follow, share, and review our podcast. Your support helps us reach more listeners and continue bringing you insightful conversations every week. See you next Sunday!
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Jonathan Mahrt: This is on the Flywheel, a podcast where each week we talk to entrepreneurs and professionals about the practical things they do to build and keep momentum in their personal and professional lives. Hello, and welcome to episode six of on the Flywheel. I'm your host, Jonathan Mart of Flywheel Consulting. And today we have with us Ryan Larabeer of Larabeer Construction and design.
Ryan Larrabure: That's correct.
Jonathan Mahrt: Thanks for coming on.
Ryan Larrabure: No problem.
Jonathan Mahrt: So we like to jump right into just giving a little bit of background about, you know, who you are, how you got to where, and how you got to where you are today and what you do now.
Ryan Larrabure: Sure. I was born and raised here in Petaluma, and when I graduated high school, I started painting. And then I went to college.
Jonathan Mahrt: My worst nightmare. Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: I went to college for a while, bounced around with different things. I wanted to do architecture, then I got into accounting. And then I just started running my own business right out of, I don't know, about 22 years old. Started doing that, I'd say now, maybe twelve years ago, I got a job at the Coast Guard training center outside of town, running about 15 guys there, construction. And I really realized at that point that doing construction was not what I wanted to do, but I wanted to run crews of people.
Jonathan Mahrt: Sure.
Ryan Larrabure: The management and that part of it was what I wanted to do. So when that contract was up, we started our own construction business, and here we are. I think it's seven years later with that. Cool. And we have six. Six full time crew members.
Jonathan Mahrt: So I met you then, like, right when you were getting your, like, right around when you were getting your business off the ground because. Or right right after, maybe. Yeah, we met maybe in like 2018, maybe somewhere in there. So you were. I didn't realize you were that fresh when we first.
Ryan Larrabure: Fresh for that, like, for the. This actual business.
Jonathan Mahrt: Right, right. No, obviously doing construction for a while.
Ryan Larrabure: And I'd run. I had run the crew at the training center, and then on the off season, I would run those guys. We would do projects together to keep because we found that it was really hard to find good people who are seasonal. Because it was a seasonal. It was like seven, eight months a year. So it was hard to find good people. So if we didn't keep them busy, we would lose them.
Jonathan Mahrt: Right. So they go on in the next.
Ryan Larrabure: And my stepdad was the one running the, the whole contract. So I had a lot of, like, emotional connection, like, keeping it going for him. So we kept the best guys and I kept them working. And then when we got done, I thought what are we gonna do with all these good guys that we found?
Jonathan Mahrt: So we just kept it running. Okay. Yeah, I know, I know. On the. On family farm, we have that problem sometimes of construction slows down. Suddenly we get a bunch of people showing up, and I'm like, well, if you just came from construction, I'm probably not going to hire you because as soon as construction gets busy again, you're going to take off again. And so then we're going to put all this time and effort into training you. And I can imagine that, like, the reverse is true, because they're not going to just. They may not go back to where they were before. They may go some other place, get another offer. So, I mean, you know, certainly being able to keep hold on to good people is super important, for sure. Okay, so you've been doing the construction thing for a long time now. How's it been going? I mean, how was this process of, like, starting your own business and building it?
Ryan Larrabure: Oh, well, when we started, it was me and somebody had worked for me out there and a couple other guys, and then one of them left, like, my guy that had been with me forever and a good friend of mine. And I always thought it was the end of the world. Cause he knew exactly how to do everything right. And we had to hire some new people, new young people. And I hired a young kid, it must have been six years ago. And I knew when I first met with them, I said, I don't care if you have any construction experience. I just want somebody who wants to learn and who can follow our plan and is a good person. Cause we do primarily, or almost exclusively, interior residential remodels. So you're in people's houses, you're dealing with their kids, with their spouses, their animals, their intimate private spaces. So you need somebody who's.
Jonathan Mahrt: You gotta have someone with a little tact and a little care.
Ryan Larrabure: So the three young guys really didn't. That we have were young. They're 27 now. They didn't have really any experience when they first started with us. And you see a lot of turnover in small residential construction. And they've been with us now for almost the whole time.
Jonathan Mahrt: So I'm pretty sure at least some of those I remember you talking about. And they're still with us. Wow, that's.
Ryan Larrabure: We've lost two. So we had a total, I think, of five guys that are all from the same group of friends. They've all referred each other. Two of them went on to different, like, different careers, but three out of the five have been with us for almost six, seven years.
Jonathan Mahrt: Wow.
Ryan Larrabure: I think it's pretty cool.
Jonathan Mahrt: That is really cool. So what do you think has allowed you to, to keep them? Because I would say in general, like less even millennials and more so younger folks, I guess Gen X or whatever. Gen Z, sorry. They don't stick around in jobs very long, two or three years at most, and then they're onto the next thing. So what do you think has been the difference for you?
Ryan Larrabure: One, just, I think my personality, I don't get upset. I don't yell and scream. We can't contract that way. And what we're doing when we're in people's houses and their home a lot of the time for a lot of this, we take care of them. I mean, compensation wise, try to take care of them, but we also, for a small business, we offer health insurance, retirement, all that kind of stuff that I don't think many small businesses, I'm pretty sure most small businesses our size don't, especially in construction, don't offer that kind of stuff. And now I just find giving them responsibility and let them, like, I don't even like when they call me and ask me questions, you guys can make the decisions yourself. So I think they enjoy that. You know, they get some freedom.
Jonathan Mahrt: So basically treat them right, give them opportunities to grow.
Ryan Larrabure: Yeah, absolutely.
Jonathan Mahrt: If I had to summarize it, absolutely. That's cool. Do you think, I mean, does it seem like you're going to be able to continue to hold on to them for the long term?
Ryan Larrabure: I think so. The hard part is the growth. Like, if we don't grow, if we don't double in scale, we don't grow that big, then there's only so high they can, so much they can do. Right. Especially in construction, there's only, you can only have so many project managers or so many salespeople.
Jonathan Mahrt: Someone's still got to swing the hammer. Correct.
Ryan Larrabure: So what are you going to. That's the real challenge. I see. And with a couple of the, the older guys that work for us, they kind of want to get into the next level, too, but you need them to guide the other guys. We don't need them doing sales. I need them to be training and doing that. So that's a bit of a challenge, what the next step is for them.
Jonathan Mahrt: I think that's one thing I've seen, too, is there is an element of it where unless you have a clear growth strategy and you're going to create more positions like you're talking about, at some point you have to accept, like, people are going to move on and you have to have a way to like, fill a pipeline and retrain people, and they're going to be good for four or five years until they kind of cap out and they're ready to move on to their next opportunity. And that just is what it is when you're a small business.
Ryan Larrabure: 100%. We've actually just, I've discussed with kind of my lead young guy an actual model that is kind of about hiring young people that want construction jobs. So these young guys, they didn't fit the mold of going to college. They weren't college bound, right. Guys, they, you know, they kind of bounced around with high school. Some, they graduated, but it wasn't easy for them. They didn't want to go to school. Right. And we know there's lots of young people that fit that, that don't want to go to college. So we've thought, like, maybe we could actually hire them with the idea being they're only going to work for us for a couple years and kind of as like a trade school, training them with the full knowledge that they're not going to be with us for more than a year or two while we teach them and then we bring in new people to do the same thing.
Jonathan Mahrt: So, yeah, I mean, that is a, you see lots of big companies do those kinds of things, right? Maybe not necessarily in the trades as much, or at least I don't have. Well, I mean, even in the trades, right, they have trade schools. They pull them in for a couple years and then they move them up the ranks or they go on. I mean, big companies will hire college graduates right away. They have a whole program. And recruiting college kids, I think that's, I think that's a smarteende. That's a really smart idea. And I think that's an interesting thing to talk about, too. When I was in high school and probably u two, college education was the biggest deal, right. I literally had, I remember a counselor telling me, like, I think someone, it was either me or someone else in the class asked, like, what if you can't afford to go to a particular school? And their advice literally was just worry about getting in and then everything else will figure itself out. Well, that's also now how people end up with huge amounts of student loan debt played that the system screwed them. Well, you know, that's a whole other conversation, but I think the point I want to highlight is that trade going into the trades is, I think, often severely I'm trying to think about how to say that, but, like, people look down on it, but actually, it's a great career opportunity.
Ryan Larrabure: I heard. I don't know where I heard the statistic, but it was for every seven construction positions. And I don't know when the timeframe they were doing this. There's only one young person coming in to fill seven positions right now.
Jonathan Mahrt: Wow.
Ryan Larrabure: So there's gonna be a need for construct for trades people.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah, yeah. And, I mean, I know people in the trades that are making a great living, and they started making that great living when they were 18.
Ryan Larrabure: Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt: You know, cuz even. Even now, like. Like, different trades pay pretty well. Even when you're out, right out of the gate, even as an apprentice, it's not. It's probably more money. It's. It's at least the same or even more money than your first, you know, corporate job out of college.
Ryan Larrabure: Yeah, 100%. Like, for our guys, what they get to do is they get to spend time with the homeowners, too, which is, you know, if you get a job and you're working in a cubicle or you're doing, you know, even other jobs, but they get to actually interact with the owner of the house almost daily. A lot of the younger guys have become friends with, like, the. They'd be, like, older parent age people for them. Like, they'd be like our parent, you know? And by the end of a project, they talk about each other like they know things about each other.
Jonathan Mahrt: That's funny.
Ryan Larrabure: Wouldn't imagine it gets talked about, but because you're in. You're in their space, and the crew, they're just personable, good people, and the homeowners love them, so, yeah, that's all part of it. So I think that gives them a little bit more buy in to what we're doing.
Jonathan Mahrt: That's cool. I think one thing I wanted to chat about is if you are, you know, if you're paying, clearly you're paying at least competitively or maybe or above market rates in order to keep people for so long, because, you know, people will hop for a dollar now. But that also must mean that you're not the cheapest guy around when it comes to getting jobs.
Ryan Larrabure: 100%. Really. For me, profits are what we obviously, we need that to survive. But what we do with doing kitchens and bathrooms and, like, it's art. It's art, and it's a lot of fun to build those things.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: And so, to me, if we make a little bit less, but we can turn over an awesome product that the homeowner loves, the guys love to be part of. And it's worth it.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah. So how are you? I mean, do you have, how sophisticated is the, is your process for costing out a job and like, estimating a job and then tracking how profitable you are?
Ryan Larrabure: It's challenging because everything we do is we don't do, you know, we can, we'll install floors for some, folding for somebody. But other than those, like, square foot tasks, every project is 100% unique. So it's, it's a bit, that's probably something that struggle with the most is if I wasn't part of the business, how people would, how somebody else would price something would be a challenge.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: Just because it's so unique. The projects are so unique.
Jonathan Mahrt: So you haven't really been able to come up with some sort of a system or like, consistent way of.
Ryan Larrabure: Not really. Like I said, that's where.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: To grow and to scale. Obviously that, that part is. I think that's something like small trade businesses run into a lot.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: The ceiling, you hit that and it's like you have to somehow train somebody else to do what you're doing, but you have to spend the time to pay attention to all the.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah, that's something I've been interested in and something I've been wanting to try and figure out how to help tradespeople with is, and this is a kind of a general, small bit, small and medium sized business thing is that, and this isn't like, directed at you necessarily, is that lots of folks don't know their numbers well. And so they think that they're making x amount of money on jobs or on whatever their work is, whatever their product is. But actually they could be they're often making more or sometimes they're making more, but often they're making actually less money than they think. When you start accounting for all the costs that you should be wrapping into those things, you know? And so I think that's a really important thing for small business owners to focus on, which, of course, you know.
Ryan Larrabure: One thing I noticed when I took my contractors license test was how little knowledge people had in the trades of how businesses work.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: So I had years, like all the college, you know, prerequisite accounting classes. So, you know, I'm pretty decent knowledge of how it all works. I was teaching people in the classes, like, they didn't know what an income statement was. They know. Balance sheet was it.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: How any of that was connected. So there's a need and I'm part of a group for the Maroon build association that's in the education group that works with getting young people in. And I want to be part of something that gets young business owners, people who want to be the actual. Run the business side, into construction, too.
Jonathan Mahrt: Okay.
Ryan Larrabure: Because I think there's going to be. Who's going to run the small businesses?
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah. Well, you need. I mean, you need the small shops, too. I mean, I don't, you know, you don't want to just work always with the big guys.
Ryan Larrabure: Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt: So is the goal for you to grow? Like, how much is enough? How do you make that decision about where the sweet spot is?
Ryan Larrabure: We now have a cabinet of sales business that we started to support our kitchen remodel business. So we do kitchen cabinet design.
Jonathan Mahrt: So you're focused on kitchens and bathrooms?
Ryan Larrabure: Kitchens and bathrooms primarily.
Jonathan Mahrt: Okay.
Ryan Larrabure: And the kitchens are what we love to do because we have the, we have the sales part of it for the cabinets. But you can't just do somebody's kitchen because they want their. Or you can't. You have to do their bathroom so you can work with them to then hopefully do their kitchen or their friend's kitchen.
Jonathan Mahrt: Oh, so the bathroom gets you in the door with people.
Ryan Larrabure: And sometimes interesting. Sometimes the projects are diff. Are challenging and you don't really want to do them. And I would really love if we just did 20 kitchens a year and that was all we had to do. But when somebody wants their bathroom done, how do you tackle that? You pass that on to somebody else or you don't do it and then they get that person and then.
Jonathan Mahrt: Well, because those are probably the two biggest projects that happen inside a home. Remodel projects that happen inside a home.
Ryan Larrabure: Right.
Jonathan Mahrt: Bathrooms and kitchens. Because after that, what else is there? Really? Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: I mean, flooring in paint.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah, that's it.
Ryan Larrabure: Not a whole lot.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah. Interesting. I hadn't really thought about that until just now.
Ryan Larrabure: So kind of gets us. That kind of gets us in. I live a substantial distance from where we work, from our businesses, so I do a lot of work remotely, and it's given me a chance to think about how to open a second location closer to where I live. Not switch, not do that location exclusively, but keep this location and then open a second location. I haven't quite figured out how to do that yet.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah, that's tough.
Ryan Larrabure: If I want to, I know I want to do it, but I don't know that I want to sacrifice what it's going to take to do that. And then the challenge also is growing up in a place it's super easy to. If I could meet somebody and do a cabinet design for them and tell them it's going to be $50,000, and they trust that they're gonna get their stuff.
Jonathan Mahrt: Right.
Ryan Larrabure: Because they know, like, I'm part of the community here, you know, that we're part of the community here. I'm afraid in other locations, it's gonna be more challenging as a small. You know, like, you can go to the brick and mortar store. We don't really have a brick and mortar store.
Jonathan Mahrt: Right.
Ryan Larrabure: So we do it all remotely. You know, we come to our clients houses with a product, it's a little bit more difficult to make them comfortable with the sale.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah, that's true. But I think. I think you do. I mean, not to get too far down in advice territory. It's like you have a. You're an established business. You have a story to tell to people. Right? We've moved to this new. We moved to this new area. We have an established business here. We want to start something up closer to home. Here's all the great projects we've done and all the testimonials.
Ryan Larrabure: Yeah. I think it's really just a way for me to not have to take the step to do it, because I don't know, like, I don't know how it would go.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: I'm kind of afraid that if I don't. Can't see that it would fail. But I'm just a fry. I don't know. It's just this. It's. It's a lot more comfortable.
Jonathan Mahrt: You know, it's easy to just keep doing what, you know. I mean, that's.
Ryan Larrabure: We get referrals. I mean, weekly. We're getting, you know, two or three phone calls from somebody referred by somebody here.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: You know, so it's just so easy. It's easy, right. One of the challenges I'm seeing now, though, and I'm sure a lot of small businesses experience this, is when you do your sphere. Like, you have your sphere of people. And then I think about with my brother, like, I did his kitchen and I did people that he know. I did their kitchen, we did their kitchens over the last couple years.
Jonathan Mahrt: Right.
Ryan Larrabure: So we're going through all. And people only need a kitchen once or twice a year, you know, in their lifetime.
Jonathan Mahrt: Right.
Ryan Larrabure: It's not something you get done every five years. So how do we grow outside of that relatively close sphere? That's kind of what we're bumping into now is like, we don't have an outside salesperson, which is something I have.
Jonathan Mahrt: To figure out, because I have two suggestions for you. One is, what if you took one or two of these experienced young guys and see if they want to move closer to you and have them start? That's the way to grow. Or the older guys, like someone on your team existing, that's willing to relocate and wants to help you run your second thing. The other thing I would recommend for me that's been very helpful starting out. I mean, you kind of, like, you're part of the Marin Builders association, but there's lots of great networking groups like B and I, which I'm sure you're familiar with, which is a great way to get connected with people and get people to, like, learn to trust you, to make referrals to you, you know, because you also, not being here means that you have. I mean, you're coming, you're driving here and you're meeting with people, but you're trying to cram everything into a couple days a week, and so it's going to be hard to make new connections once you've, you know, you exhaust.
Ryan Larrabure: Yeah, that's kind of where we are. Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt: Unless you start really aggressively advertising, which is expensive, too.
Ryan Larrabure: Yeah. Which is expensive. And I've thought of some unique ideas of, like, setting up vignettes or, like, small sample things in different, different shops, like flooring stores and stuff like that, where we can kind of partner with them so we don't have to actually have a paid. We don't have to pay for a space.
Jonathan Mahrt: Sure.
Ryan Larrabure: But it's. Starts to get difficult.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: They don't want to spend time selling your product unless you're gonna.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: You know, it's difficult, but.
Jonathan Mahrt: Well, let's. Let's. We could probably go all day about this, but I want to keep moving a little bit. I just want to touch on a couple more business related things. First off, what do you consider the best part and the worst part about what you do?
Ryan Larrabure: The best part, honestly, now it's being part of the design side of things for the business. I love running the business itself, but I love the design part, taking somebody's ideas and creating at the end of the project. You work somebody for a year, you meet with, you design something, you take what they want, and then a year later, you see this finished product, and that part's really awesome. And I've been doing a lot more on the design because we do a lot of art is almost all of our design as well.
Jonathan Mahrt: Are you the one doing all the design in your business.
Ryan Larrabure: Yeah. I don't want to take, I'm not full credit, but I do a lot of our drawings. I'm really starting to get more into for our permit submittals and doing those more in depth drawings, I'm starting to do more of that. So I kind of wish I'd actually gotten into back like 25 years ago, gotten into architecture, being an architect.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: Now I wish I kind of had went that way some more experience. So that's probably the part that I enjoy the most about it now other than just, it's so neat just having like a crew of people that are part like a family.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah. You enjoy the camaraderie.
Ryan Larrabure: Yeah, it's awesome having, just being a business, running a business like Isdev just awesome. And all in itself, the challenge is now, I mean, just being 2 hours from here on a like, micro level is difficult. Like if, when I lived here, if there was a problem, somebody could call me and I could be there, pop up stealing. But that's not a great way to run a business. Like, you can't grow a business if you're the one who, if 07:00, 08:00 at night, there's a problem.
Jonathan Mahrt: Right.
Ryan Larrabure: I, you know, be the one who runs over there. So that's really trained me to like to delegate and give.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah. Force you figure out how to delegate, build good systems and processes because you can't just cover, use manpower to cover up any deficiencies in your business.
Ryan Larrabure: Correct.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah. That's interesting.
Ryan Larrabure: And leaning on people to do things that you wouldn't necessarily, like, always lean on them for.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah. Talk about that a little bit more. Cause I think that's interesting.
Ryan Larrabure: Some of the young business owners struggle to do that. So I don't have a choice. Right. If anything, moving 2 hours away, I don't have a choice. If I'm going to run a business from 2 hours away, I have to be able to trust everybody that works for us. And I tell them when they call me or when they ask me questions, like, you guys know, you don't have to call me for this decision. If it's something that's going to be a big problem, if we do it wrong, by all means, I want to talk about it, but day to day stuff, just make it, just go for it. What's the worst that we're going to have to redo something small. But it's so much better for me if I'm in the middle of working on something else. I don't want to call about. What do you think about the size of the grout line for the bathroom tile? Right. Like, you can make that call on site. So I've given a lot of that to them and then also given up. It's been a challenge. My wife works with me. She runs, does a great job running all of our back end stuff, bookkeeping. I just met with our insurance guy, and I don't even talk to him that much because I get emails from her. I saying, this is what we're doing.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: Like, I don't deal with that stuff. That's been a huge challenge. Is giving up all of that, like, giving up any kind of control over just that control. Yeah, been a challenge.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: Which I, she, my wife runs her own bookkeeping business now, and she wants, she focuses on contractors and she sees the same thing. It's just, it's a challenge. They don't, we don't want to give up.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: Control of the way we did it. Right. We don't want to do that.
Jonathan Mahrt: So, yeah, I mean, I was trying to do some outrage to trades folks, and it's hard to, to get them to, like, even want to talk to you about changing anything. Even if they know that they need the help. They're like, eh, keep doing things the way I've been doing them.
Ryan Larrabure: I've noticed that with, maybe it's just my background and, like, really enjoying the business, the business side of things, but people that do really good, that have really good business, really not the business side, but they produce a really good product. They do a lot of business how, like, right on the edge. It is of, like, one thing. It could fall off and. Right, like, they're just skating by, like, not the rules. And the rules are tough to follow, all the employment rules and all.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: But there's some people that. Oh, I mean, right on the edge.
Jonathan Mahrt: Construction industry is, trades are notorious for, you know, there's the people that try and do everything 100%, and then there's a lot in between there.
Ryan Larrabure: And it's a challenge to try to follow all.
Jonathan Mahrt: No, it's not easy, especially in California. It's hard to run a business in California, especially when you're small and you don't have a whole HR department to take care of everything and a safety and compliance department to do everything and make sure everything's, you know. Right. You don't have full time people. It's you doing, wearing all of those hats. So the delegation part of it. I mean, has anything gone wrong when you've, when you've been making these calls, say you make the decision. Any major messages?
Ryan Larrabure: Not majortaindez. I mean, the one thing a challenge. I think we, as the, you know, the founders, that is when there is a problem, keeping your mouth shut and not making a big deal about the problem. I specifically asked some people last week to do a specific task, and I got there and that task wasn't done. And I have to explain to him, like, the schedule's built with these things being done.
Jonathan Mahrt: Right.
Ryan Larrabure: I don't just ask you to do this because I want you to fill your day with, with work. But you can't go in there and yell at, like, be upset. Like, I didn't go in upset about it. I tried to explain, like, there's a reason I asked you to do it this way. I appreciate you doing, like, taking the initiative and doing it, but you've got a, there's a reason we're doing it in this progression. But I don't yell. I don't get upset. I try to be as, like, calm as possible because you're gonna crush them.
Jonathan Mahrt: Right.
Ryan Larrabure: Somebody takes a chance and does it, and then you yell at them for doing a. I mean, it's marginal. It didn't cause a problem.
Jonathan Mahrt: It was just like a marginal, as long as they had good reasons for doing it. I think that's my experience, too. I'm never gonna be upset at someone that at least had a reasonable reason for why they did it and the decisions that they made. It's, if you just, like, on the other hand, if you do something and then I ask, why did you do that? You're like, I just felt basically, I felt like it, or I just decided to do it. I didn't think it through at all. That's a different conversation that we have to have.
Ryan Larrabure: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jonathan Mahrt: You know, and I think that's a great thing that you're mentioning, too, is that you're explaining, not just telling people to do things. I think this is an important part of delegation, but explaining why you're doing them, because that also empowers them to make better decisions on their own in the future.
Ryan Larrabure: Absolutely. One thing with the delegation part of it is knowing the personalities of the people you're delegating to. Right. So we have five, six guys, and they all have different personalities. Now. Some of them work good with each other.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: And some of them don't. And you have to pay attention to that or else it all falls apart because you said, this person, and I've. And it's happened where I thought, this person can work great with that person. That person's got a lot of energy and so does that person. And then I got a call, like, later that day, like, I can't work with this person. And I thought, how can you not? This guy's. Exactly.
Jonathan Mahrt: Too much energy together starts a fire. Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: They can't work together because the one, like, the lead has too much energy.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: And he can't slow down enough to, like, give the other guy guidance. And if you don't give him guidance, the other guy just goes off and does whatever he thinks. Like, he keeps busy.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: He needs the guidance. It doesn't work. So keeping knowing their personalities and knowing how they work and then trying to make sure you put those people together, you know.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: It's a challenge.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah. There's definitely an art and process to delegation. I think that's, that's great. So the last question, actually, I think I have two more questions I want to touch on. What is, like, what's your general. And we've, we've spoken. I think we've touched on it already a little bit. What's your general business philosophy? What do you think about your approach to your business that makes you successful?
Ryan Larrabure: I think something that small businesses, we take on everything. Every job that comes in, we want it. Especially when you start out, you take everything off.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: My wife, we'll meet clients or talk, talk to a client on the phone or whatever, and she says, well, talk to me and say, how do you get these clients? Why are they. How do you get such nice clients? Because we don't take on every job. If I meet with somebody, you know, our first meeting is usually just to see. I tell them, like, this is just to see if we're going to work together. Because if it doesn't work between you and me, as, you know, the contractor and the client, I don't need your job. We don't need the job. Just to fill in the space.
Jonathan Mahrt: Right.
Ryan Larrabure: It's not worth it. So really just working with good people, both employees and client customers, that's great. I don't know who said it, but just like firing your bad customers, it's super important to do that or else you get stuck. And we know we've all done it. And everybody I talk to that's in, that's in any business takes, they've taken on a job or a client they know isn't the right fit and it's not the right fit of. And inevitably it always goes bad.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yes. That's something I'm trying to be mindful as I'm building my business too, is like having those meetings with people and I try and be really upfront and say, hey, if I want this to be a good fit both ways, this isn't about just making a sale. Right. I don't want to sell you something that I can't actually deliver on. And I want to make sure that you actually need the help that I'm providing because it needs to be. For me, business is a partnership. Right. And so it needs to be a mutually beneficial relationship. I don't want to just be extracting value from you. I want you to feel like I've provided you so much value that you absolutely want to pay me for it. And so, yeah, you want to walk away. I'm sure your clients, if they walk away with a beautiful kitchen, their dream kitchen, yes, I want to pay you for it. I feel good about doing it.
Ryan Larrabure: Absolutely, absolutely. You know, we run into them because we get, you know, you get referred from somebody. Well, you don't get to choose who they're referring. Like who somebody is referring out. Yeah, that's something that I would recommend to people starting out. Like, be very clear with what you do. So we do kitchen and bathroom remodels, we don't build fences, we don't build decks, we don't do roofs. Like we don't have do that stuff. So it took a long time to train everybody in our sphere to know that's what we had a refer because I don't want to get a call about offense because then I've got to spend time. Somebody's got to call that person back and tell them we don't do that.
Jonathan Mahrt: Right.
Ryan Larrabure: I don't mind giving them a referral to somebody who does do that. We have plenty of people that we refer to, but it'll be better if our call, you know, everybody knew. They just didn't give us.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah. If all your leads were already qualified for you.
Ryan Larrabure: Exactly.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah, exactly. Absolutely.
Ryan Larrabure: So it's taken a long time to get to this point, but now it's almost exclusively, you know, such and such wants a kitchen done, bathroom done. I mean, there's always stuff that comes, ancillary stuff. Then we have partners that we refer everything out to.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah, that's great. So the last piece that I want to touch on is like, how are you being 2 hours away managing a crew remotely? How are you managing your time and the tasks and everything that needs, needs to get done effectively?
Ryan Larrabure: For me, time management is a huge challenge because I love talking to people. I love.
Jonathan Mahrt: That's why I had you on the podcast.
Ryan Larrabure: I really enjoy it. It's a challenge, and I will go to our job sites, and it's even a challenge just with my crew of guys, like, go there and they're all personable, and it's a big challenge with having guys that are good at talking and good with people is that they're all good with people. So if you put too many of them on one job, they don't. Right. And you can't crush that, because then when are they going to know when to talk? Oh, is this. Can I talk to the client? Like, it's a. It's a fine line. We walk with that.
Jonathan Mahrt: Right.
Ryan Larrabure: But, like, my time management, I try to put everything on my. On my schedule and do only the things that I can do from here when I'm here.
Jonathan Mahrt: Right.
Ryan Larrabure: So I try not to sit. We have an office here. We have an office in Auburn where we live. I try to spend as little time in an office here as possible.
Jonathan Mahrt: Okay.
Ryan Larrabure: Because I can do that office work when I'm at home.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah. Are you using any kind of, like, system or piece of software or something to kind of, like, keep everything organized?
Ryan Larrabure: I do all mine. And Google. Just Google calendars for all that. We have drive. We use Google Drive for everything.
Jonathan Mahrt: Okay.
Ryan Larrabure: That was another thing that my wife had, like, wanted to use drive. Put everything in drive. Everything in drive. And I fought it and fought it and fought it. And if she could hear how many times I say to a client, like, I'm so happy she has me using drive, because, like, their plans will be in drive. I can pull it up on my phone, or I'm with the guys and we don't have a paper set of plans. And I can show them, or they can have access to it, too. They don't all use it, but they can pull up the plans.
Jonathan Mahrt: Beautiful.
Ryan Larrabure: Right there. So the technology side of it is great. It's just a challenge because of this. If we could. If and when we get to the next level, just the one next level, I could really train, spend the time. It'd be worth it to train everybody in, using more of the technology.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah, for sure.
Ryan Larrabure: It wouldn't be. It's not going to be profitable to spend. We'd be spending more time using technology than actually just working.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah, there's a. There's a fine line. There's a. There's a fine line there where, you know, some of it is always to those setting the foundation to build for the future. And so, yeah, you're not making money now, but in the future, it's going to enable you to make money.
Ryan Larrabure: We have a project management program that we use, and we just barely skim the surface.
Jonathan Mahrt: Right.
Ryan Larrabure: Of what's available. It's just, it's so much in it that to train somebody, we wouldn't use all of it.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: You know, so it's a challenge.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah. Yeah. That's for sure. So let's. Let's go into a little more of the personal stuff now. Is there any kind of, like, routine or things that you do in your day like, that you feel set you up to have a successful day?
Ryan Larrabure: Well, driving down here, I leave early in the morning, and every day when I drive down, I listen to a podcast or podcast. Right now I'm catching up on Jesse Cole, who runs the Savannah bananas.
Jonathan Mahrt: Oh, yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: I started listening to his podcast. We started in 2017, so I'm working my way from 2017.
Jonathan Mahrt: Holy smokes.
Ryan Larrabure: Great guests. And he's. He's a. Just off the wall and has these crazy ideas, which I think is really neat.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: To be a little different than everybody else. And that's kind of how we are as a construction business. Like, we're not the normal, like, what you picture construction crew, for sure. So I do that on my way down, and then on my way home, I always listen to it's audible book on my way home, so.
Jonathan Mahrt: So always be learning.
Ryan Larrabure: Always. And then I've got like 80 titles in there, and I have probably 20 on my wish list. And I just wait for the credit to pop up that says, like, you're ready to get another one, and I get a new one and go through that. Yeah, I spend 4 hours, 8 hours a week in the car, consistent driving.
Jonathan Mahrt: So use all that time.
Ryan Larrabure: Use that time for.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah, I mean, that's like the blessing curse about having a commute is that I don't have a commute. So I listen to. I listen to a lot of podcasts, but it's all in the in between times doing yard work. I mean, driving ten or 15 minutes, sure. But, you know, it's all like little bits and pieces. Whereas when I used to have a big, longer commute, that was a great time to do two things. Listen to, you know, books on tape. Books. Well, not on tape. Listen to audible or podcasts and then call people I hadn't talked to in a while.
Ryan Larrabure: That's something that I do a lot. I don't do it as much as I should because it's a lot easier, more comfortable just to turn on a podcast or audible than it is to call somebody.
Jonathan Mahrt: Oh, yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: But it's a great way to, like, I can not do phone calls throughout the day, and then I can call people on my drive home.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah, of course. Hands free. Yes, of course. Following all applicable laws.
Ryan Larrabure: Absolutely. Yeah. 100%.
Jonathan Mahrt: So I think one thing that has to be challenging, and this is something I've talked to a lot of people, most of our guests about, is work life balance. Right. Finding that line, especially if you want to try and grow your business. How do you manage that in your own life?
Ryan Larrabure: It's a challenge, for sure. We have a two and a half year old. It takes a lot of our time. You know, she's. We had her late in life, and I like to spend as much time with her as possible. It's. It's a real challenge right now, is how to do. To make it work balance. And I've heard a lot of people talk about, like, there's really no way to balance it. It's just, like, seasons. Like, you can. At this time of your life, you can spend a lot of time on your work, and at this time, it's, like, all about our family right now. Yeah. I don't know that there is a real balance to it.
Jonathan Mahrt: I think the question is, how do you. How do you make it? How do you prioritize the season you're in? What do you. What's your approach to that?
Ryan Larrabure: It's tough right now. We have an office outside of our house, so we have. We know downtown Auburn, we have our own officer, so we can actually go there and focus on.
Jonathan Mahrt: So you have some content switch.
Ryan Larrabure: That's really nice to be able to actually get, like, a focused place and not try to work from home. And then one thing I had to over the years, working with my wife is, like, not bringing work into everything we do, which is a challenge.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: I mean, until, as we had a kid, it was. All we really had was like, we ran a business.
Jonathan Mahrt: Well, I mean, everyone comes home and talks to their spouse about how the work day went. If you're working together, then of course all you're gonna do is talk about those things.
Ryan Larrabure: It's really hard not to leave the separation, and then it's hard just to. To keep the separation of business and.
Jonathan Mahrt: Well, yeah. Not to let your relationship just be about your work. Right. Because that doesn't keep a spark alive, I'm sure.
Ryan Larrabure: No. And then, you know, it's tough to, like, leave the work away from your personal stuff. Yeah, it's a challenge. I mean, you really have to work. You have to work out.
Jonathan Mahrt: I mean, as someone, as someone who has worked with three brothers and a dad in a family business, I can say that every family gathering inevitably ends up discussions about business. And no matter how some of us try to intentionally stay away from those conversations, otherwise they're just going to talk about it. But I know I always try and not bring up work and bring up work as much as possible, then that's all it ever is. Like, my entire relationship with you is just about work. And like, that's, that's not a way to live as much as, like, you know, having a farm is a lifestyle business. Right. But it's just like, let's, let's. I want to, you know, know you and spend time with you in a capacity that isn't just about work.
Ryan Larrabure: Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt: So I think that's, I think that's important.
Ryan Larrabure: Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt: So let's get to, let's, let's jump into some of the kind of the bonus question time here. So what are some of the books. Big audible guy. So what are some of your favorite, unless you've read them but, or listened, some of your favorite books you've recommended?
Ryan Larrabure: When I saw the name of the podcast, anything by Jim Collins is awesome. So.
Jonathan Mahrt: And that is the inspiration is good to. Great. Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: I have all, I don't know, six of them on and I've read, I just love how they, how those books.
Jonathan Mahrt: Were all, they're very practical. They feel very practical. Like real. Yeah. Good recommendation. Yeah.
Ryan Larrabure: For businesses that are, you know, billions of dollars in revenue, it's relatable to. Yeah, to us. This guy, Jesse Cole, I listened to his most recent book. Super, super good.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah. Actually, we had another person on and he also recommended that book. I might have to check it out.
Ryan Larrabure: One's called wear your yellow tux or something. That, that was first one. The second one, I can't remember what it is.
Jonathan Mahrt: Well, it'll be in the, I'll put it in the podcast description.
Ryan Larrabure: It's.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah, that's. We do. We. I do have a list of all books that have been recommended. Yeah. And who recommended them.
Ryan Larrabure: Yeah. I. Every time I listen to a podcast, I put like, somebody recommend a book and I'll just do, I just listened to. It's called Bluefish.
Jonathan Mahrt: Okay.
Ryan Larrabure: I'm not the guy's name, but he has a business called Bluefish and it's like a lifestyle brand. Like he does, like, I don't say party planning but he, like, for wealthy people, they want something specific. Like, he did, like a dinner at the Vatican with, like, the pope there or something like. And he can. He makes that all happen. So I just wasn't his crazy. It was really good. Interesting kind of about putting yourself out there and not taking no for an answer. And why not?
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah, why not?
Ryan Larrabure: You, like, why can't you do? I think about it with our construction business, like, we do things a little different. Like, we're not rough and tough and, like, I don't yell and scream at people. Why does it have to be construction? Have to be that way?
Jonathan Mahrt: Right.
Ryan Larrabure: Why can't we use technology to do the things that maybe in the past you didn't, you worked harder and not smarter.
Jonathan Mahrt: Yeah, 100%. That's awesome. Those are some good recommendations. And the other question we're asking everyone is if you could give people one piece of advice and put it up on a billboard over a busy freeway, what would it be?
Ryan Larrabure: I think with. With hiring people, I would say hire for a character and not, like, look for people's character and not their abilities. It's just something I think, like, it's super important.
Jonathan Mahrt: Well, clearly it's yielded results for you, right? I mean, being able to hire. I'm impressed that you've been able to hire those young kids and have them stick with you. That's hard to do. I know that from personal experience, you know?
Ryan Larrabure: Yeah. It's not really a life message, I.
Jonathan Mahrt: Guess, but there's lots of people trying. Lots of people hire people regardless, and I think that's good advice. Well, Ryan, thank you so much for taking time to be on the podcast. It's been a pleasure for me as well. Where could people find you?
Ryan Larrabure: Larabeerconstruction.com.
Jonathan Mahrt: How do you spell Larabeer?
Ryan Larrabure: Larrabure construction.com. or on Instagram and Facebook.
Jonathan Mahrt: Okay. Under layer beer construction. I'll have links to all that in the description as well. This has been another episode of on the Flywheel. Once again, I am your host, Jonathan Mart. You can find find more about flywheel consulting at Flywheelconsulting Co. Thank you and have a great day.