Success is built on trust
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In this episode, I sit down with Brynn Wilson, an estate planning attorney. Brynn walks us through her unique journey into law, starting as a high school receptionist at a law firm, and how she found her passion in estate planning. We talk about what it really means to be a partner at a law firm, the emotional challenges of estate litigation, and the nuances of helping families navigate end-of-life decisions. She also opens up about her personal routines, how she maintains momentum in her career, and the importance of self-awareness and positivity in building a meaningful life and business.
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Brynn’s Background
Starting in law as a high school receptionist
Shifting from family law to estate planning
Finding inspiration from her mother and early mentors
The Reality of Being a Lawyer
Misconceptions about lawyers and managing client perceptions
Differences between litigation and transactional work
Understanding the business side of law: partnerships, billables, and scaling
Estate Planning and Family Dynamics
Why precision and detail matter in legal documents
Navigating emotionally charged family situations
The importance of client fit and knowing when to refer out
Advice for Professionals and Entrepreneurs
Staying positive and being persistent through career ebbs and flows
Building self-awareness and addressing your limitations
Keeping family relationships a priority over financial gain
Final Reflections
What Brynn would put on a billboard: “Stay Positive”
The lessons she’s learned from helping people plan for the end of life
Reaffirming that strong relationships matter more than money
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Jonathan Mahrt – LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanmahrt/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/flywheel_consulting/
Website - http://www.flywheelconsulting.co/
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This is on the Flywheel, a podcast where each week we talk to entrepreneurs and professionals about the practical things they do to build and keep momentum in their personal and professional lives. Hello and welcome to on the Flywheel. I'm your host, Jonathan Mart of Flywheel Consulting.
And today I have on the podcast Brynn Wilson, an estate planning attorney. Thank you so much for being on today.
Thank you for having me.
So I always like to start out having you or having our guests talk a little bit about their journey and how they got to where they are today from a professional perspective.
Yeah, so I started working at law firms when I was in high school as a receptionist, and I sort of got a flavor for what people were doing and how they practiced, and I still was interested. Once I graduated from high school, I went to UC Berkeley for my undergrad, and then from there I got hired at another law firm. So that was sort of my getting introduced into law firms. I initially started a family law law firm and quickly realized that there's a lot of issues that come along with family law that I didn't really want to have to handle.
You didn't also want to be a therapist?
Right. So, I mean, I think that still comes along with every job. You want to have that personal touch with people, but yeah, I just recognize there was a lot of difficulty in that. But I did really love working with families. And so estate planning is where I landed because that's sort of a natural, natural sort of offshoot, man.
So you started early then. So when you were in, when you were like helping out in high school, just like, you just like found the job or were you interested in law all the way back then?
Yeah, I sort of. So I would see my mom come home from her job and she was a property manager when I was a kid, and she was dressed in suits and nice shoes. And I sort of imagined myself one day having one of those types of respectable jobs where I would wear a suit and, you know, so I, I visualized that for myself. I didn't know if it was going to be a law firm, but then a friend of mine got me connected with an attorney's office that was looking for a receptionist to help them out, and that sort of became the natural flow of things.
Wow. So you're most people. I would say that most people's part time job in high school does not directly relate to their future career. So that's pretty cool that you kind of just went boom, boom, boom, boom, like, had it lined out. Most people spend. Well, not most people there's plenty of people that spend their twenties just trying to figure their life out. So you just went straight to it. That's awesome. Do you feel like that was like. Do you feel like that was an advantage? Did you have a clarity of purpose through that whole journey?
Yeah, so I think there were advantages and disadvantages. The advantages were that I really had a direction for where my career was going, but I recognized throughout time that I was not nearly as focused on the personal aspects of my life. And so I did really find that sort of more difficult over time. And so when I got out of college, there was sort of a period there where I was still working for an attorney at the same firm I'm actually at now and hadn't really sorted out all the personal stuff. So I do think that maybe there was too much focus on the career.
So were you able. How were you. I assume you were able to. Correct. How were you able to do that? What'd you have to kind of do to kind of balance things out a little bit?
Yeah, so I met my now husband in law school, and he has this way of balancing me out. He really does know how to have fun. And so that was really. It's been a joy for me. And we've had our ups and downs like every relationship, but he. He is sort of my rock.
That's awesome.
I got lucky.
That's awesome. It's always great when I think it's not to get too much into relationships on a more business focused podcast, but I do think that there's an element of having a. I think it's a bad thing when you want your partner to make up for all of your weaknesses and you're expecting them to be the solution to your problems, because I think that's a dangerous recipe. But it is nice to have someone that can help balance you out and help kind of temper you and account for some of, like, the extremes and your bad habits, maybe in your person, in your kind of approach to life. So that's great.
Yeah. Yeah.
My wife definitely helps me with that kind of stuff as well. And I think me for her, too. I think she'd say that. So you start being a lawyer. I think it's. Lawyers are. I feel like it's a loaded word. Right. There's a lot of negative connotations associated with lawyers. Lawyers can be scary. There's a lot of presuppositions. How do you navigate that with people? Do you run into that a lot? Do you have that experience or is that just from. Is that just my experience watching TV and stuff like that.
No. So I think there is always an element of truth in the sense that attorneys generally are higher educated, they can be intimidating. My goal when I work with my clients is really to not be intimidating or to try to sort of set a juxtaposition to that. Right. And I think that it depends on the area of law you end up into.
Sure, sure.
Certainly there are advantages to being a harder personality when you're trying to be litigious. And I think that when you are working more with families or trying to do estate planning, which is what I do, you want to have more of a personal touch. And so I think it's finding that balance in, in the types of law that you're practicing. And some people transition, they go back and forth, they try different things to see what best suits their personality.
Yeah, I guess there's a lot of. There's a lot of varieties of lawyer too. So maybe people, someone like I want to be a lawyer, but then it maybe takes them a second to figure out what kind of lawyer they want to be.
Yeah.
So I got to imagine, is there any advantage to being a hard nosed lawyer as an estate planning attorney, like being like a TV shark? Is that of any benefit?
So I think that there are areas in estate planning, if you do trust in estates litigation, then you do want to have a more hard nosed approach. I think that can be advantageous. But you know, it just sort of. I personally always knew I wanted to be on the more transactional side. And I think my talent lies more with the finding the details, you know, being more detail oriented. And there are people that are really well suited for litigation.
Sure.
That you can lean on. And I'm fortunate to have a partner at my firm that I can rely on for that. And everyone has their different approach. I think that lawyers can also rely on each other for their different skills. In a firm setup, you can have people who are more hard nosed and then you can have the people that come in sort of as the good cop, bad cop type scenario.
So I think law firms are interesting beast to me. And I truthfully don't under. So explain to me the like putting. I mean, obviously I know if you become a partner, then there's like regular partners or different kinds of partners and there's like named partners. But explain to me the whole like putting your name on the company thing.
Sure, sure. So you know, being a partner just means you essentially have a profit sharing interest. It means that you have demonstrated sort of a loyalty and ability to work with the people that you're in the firm with and that they are. They can rely on you to bring in clients, to support their own clients, and it becomes a partnership. Right. So getting your name on the firm is sort of a decision that is both business and economics. You know, for some firms, changing the name of your firm is kind of. It's an onerous task in the sense that you have to, you know, change your, like, bank account details, letterhead, Letterhead, everything. Yeah. And so from an economic perspective, some people want to have that acknowledgement of being a partner and a named partner, and other people sort of are just fine with it, sticking with the name, the original name of the firm. I think there is a lot of added value for firms out there that have long standing names people recognize. Right. And especially some firms do a lot more advertising than others, so there might be more value.
So why. I'm sure there's legal reasons for this, but why is it putting your name on the law firm as opposed to like having just calling it, you know, Expert Lawyers Inc. Or something like that?
Yeah, so a couple of different reasons. One is that if you're actually a specialist, that is a designation you've earned. So you wouldn't call yourself an expert unless you actually were an expert.
Okay, fair enough. So now I'm talking to. Now there's the lawyer right there.
And then from the liability protection issues, state of California, we need to be. Our entities are supposed to provide malpractice insurance to protect our clients, who we represent. And there are limitations in the type of liability protection that a professional company can have. So lawyers, you know, a lot of people will come to you and ask you or for me, a lot of people will come to me and ask me if they can create liability protection by creating an entity. I'm a public servant, so I have to have malpractice insurance to protect you if I mess up. Right. And so we, you know, the public interest is that we don't have the same level of liability protection for professionals that are supposed to do their job.
Interesting. So that's why. That's why it's a partnership as opposed to forming a corporation or something like that. Interesting. Yeah. I never knew. I never really understood that. So it's interesting to hear that. So how long does it take someone to become a partner, typically in a firm? Is there an average time span for that?
Yeah, so I think it varies across the board. Some people get out of law school and decide to hang up a shingle and Become an attorney for themselves and they're a partner.
Right. Well, fair enough.
That would be.
Hang up a shingle. I've never heard that phrase before. I like that.
Yeah. And others might go through the process of working for a bigger firm. Bigger firms, there tends to be sort of an understanding of how long you'll work there before you become a partner, if you do or if you have sort of met a specific threshold or qualification to get there. A lot of times that has to do with the number of billables you might have or number of hours that your billables, meaning number of hours you've worked for clients or demonstration of certain skills. But, yeah, I don't think there's a defined period of time.
Yeah. I was more wondering if there was like a rough range when people normally hit it, like 10 to 15 years or 15 to 20 years or something like that.
Yeah, I think so. It can be like sort of a general. Generally, maybe like. I think there's. Like I said, it could totally vary across the board, but maybe four. Four for some, seven for some, 10 for some. Some never become partner. Some people get offered partnership and just decide not to do it because it does come with other obligations actually running the business. And maybe they just don't want to do that. Yeah. So I think being a lawyer is also interesting because I think, especially if you're going to become a partner, you're talking about billable hours, bringing in clients, that kind of things. You're not just. You really are a business lawyer. You're not. I mean, you are a business owner, not just a transactional person. I mean, because you could be perhaps a incredible lawyer. But if you're not good at bringing in business, then you're not going to get as far in your career or be able to become a partner, probably. Right.
Yeah. And I think it depends. It depends on the structure of your partnership and the support staff that you have, too. But, yeah, I think that's generally true. Generally, partners are supposed to be able to bring in business on their own.
They have to be able to sell.
As well, and they need to have community connections. And that's really actually difficult as an attorney when you're working so many hours to get the documents done that your client needs or to complete tasks that you're actually supposed to be working on versus making community connections and getting out there and getting to know people so that they know your name and want to hire you. So there's a difficult balance there.
Yeah. So how do you scale as a lawyer? Right. Because you talk about billable hours. If you, if, if your success and the way you make money is tied to you sitting behind, well, not necessarily sitting behind a desk, but figure of speech, sitting behind a desk and creating work on behalf of a client. How, how do you, how do you scale that beyond yourself? Do you just keep. Because you're just. I mean, obviously your hourly rate maybe continues to go up over time, but what are the, what are the ways that lawyers actually get some scale? Is it just by having people underneath them?
Yeah, I think it's a combination of, you know, if you're one of those lawyers that hung up a shingle and you do it on your own, then over time, with inflation, I think your billable hour can increase and so you can continue to run your business for those people that are just, you know, the sole proprietorship or the entrepreneur. For those people that are in the firm structure. The firm structure is usually more associated with having a billable set. And, you know, when somebody is fresh out of law school, they're just not going to have the same level of experience, expertise, and knowledge. So they, Their billable rate is generally set lower because they just.
I would hope so.
Yeah, of course, because they just don't. They take longer to do things, and that is totally reasonable. There's nothing wrong with that. But it does take time for each individual to become more experienced, and it's easier for people to answer questions. And you can see that development over time as you watch your associates. For me, it was sort of like, you know, a question might come in and I might know the answer immediately. My associate might call me and say, what do I do?
Yeah, yeah, right, right.
And I might know the answer immediately, or I might know where to look. That associate fresh out of school is not going to know. So ultimately, to answer your question, which was how do you sort of scale the business, you hire associates fresh out of law school who want to learn and who are eager to learn, and you help them learn so that they can become better attorneys. And then you yourself are also practicing at the same time. And as you're supervising them, usually you want there to be some level of return on your investment in them. And frankly, sometimes there isn't a return immediately. You know, you hire somebody and you're just paying out of pocket for that person to learn, right? Until they can really grasp, because it's grasp of the material, because it's not fair to the client for them to be paying more than they should. So we have to sort of pay attention how Long would it take me versus that person, and is it about the same?
And make sure it's reasonable? Yeah, I have a little bit of experience with that because I worked at Ernst Young right out of college, which was, you know, as a big accounting and consulting firm. And so you'd have us come out of college working for these, you know, huge companies doing, like, it auditing and stuff, and we knew absolutely nothing. But it was also, like, a very bizarre situation to be in there talking to, you know, people in companies that maybe had, like, 10, 15, 20 years of experience in interviewing them about things and trying to act like an expert. And behind the scenes, you know, they're just trying to, you know, get you trained up and get you to understand things. And definitely, I mean, I know for a fact that we were billed at a much, much lower rate than people, you know, other people in the company by orders of magnitude. So it's interesting to. Interesting to see the process of developing people and getting them to the point that they're, you know, competent enough. Do you. So what do you think? I asked a lot of just general lawyer questions because it was kind of interesting to learn a little bit about the business, to dig into a little bit more. From your perspective, what do you feel like is the best thing and the worst thing about being, I guess, specifically an estate planning attorney?
Yeah. So I think the best thing is that at the end of the day, when I look at my bigger picture of what I'm doing with my life, I think there's a sense of gratification that I am helping people. That's the reason why I went to school is. And I was really focused on the business aspect, but I wanted my higher purpose to be. To help people. And so I do really love estate planning because at the end of the day, it's about helping families transfer wealth in a responsible way, taking care of each other. And that is really a wonderful thing.
Yeah.
And so that's the part I really do love, the stuff that gets hard. You know, I think I. I don't, do I. I do trust in estates litigation. I sort of consult on it. Right. There's another partner at my firm that does an excellent job at that. He's sort of the face of it. Right. And I think sometimes it's just heart wrenching to see how disappointing people can.
Be, you know, such a tactful way of saying it.
Thanks. Yeah. And so I do sometimes feel for my clients because even if I, you know, one of the hard things is that even if I really do feel for them, and I am mad for them. I'm not going to tell them that necessarily because it's not going to help them. I have to decide what is really going to help them in that moment. And it's hard.
Yeah. Yeah, I imagine that. You know, and it's amazing how money can really tear a family apart, I think. Talk a little bit about. Well, I don't know how much, you know, tell me if I. You can't say anything from a legal perspective, but I feel like having people having a plan is so important for if they happen to pass away, no matter what age they are. Because I just. I mean, I've seen it so many times over and over again. People don't have a plan for when they die, and then the family just dissolves because they're just fighting over whatever assets are left.
Yeah. So, you know, my job is to find out what the person wants. Right. So the client is the. Sometimes they're the, you know, married couple or the individual that comes in and tells me what they want, and sometimes that they tell me that what they want doesn't align with what their family wants. So you're sort of aware of the risk associated with taking that client and you have to make it. Decision about whether or not you want to take that client because you know that on the back end, the family is involved too, and there will be.
Drama that you're going to get possibly pulled into. Likely. Yeah. Or whatever the ratio is.
Yeah. Yeah. And so that's why it's so important in this field to really field the clients. Ask them questions about their situation. Sometimes people are sort of. They walk in, they know what they want, they tell me what they want. And. And that's great. But I also want to know, well, who are all the players here? Because you don't want to be surprised on the back end.
Yeah. So how do you. How do you. Is there ever a difference between what people say they want and then what they actually want once you get into it?
Yes, all the time. A lot of times people don't know what their options are. They might even not know what California law applies. So I usually take them through the process of sort of understanding what California law, what the default rules under California law are, and then I go into the process of talking about what it is that they want and the implications of that.
Yeah. So expound a little bit earlier you talked about feeling like your attention to detail makes. Makes you a good lawyer. Can you expound upon that a little bit?
Yeah. So in Particular in estate planning, you know, the. The documents, the trust instrument, the will, the power of attorney. Those documents are what are going to give us information about what the client wants. And so you want to be extraordinarily precise about what you draft in there and think through the administration side of that, too. Meaning that, you know, if a client comes in and they say, I want, you know, my house to go in a trust for someone, well, what does that look like? Who's going to pay the property taxes? How do. How is the insurance going to be paid? Is it going to cause property tax reassessment on their passing? What are the implications of that? So my job is to really pay attention to not only the idea, but the implications of it. And then being detail oriented by, you know, moving one word to one side or the other can change the meaning of something. Right. And so making sure that your language is precise, too.
Yeah. What is it? The Oxford comma makes a big difference.
Right, right, right. So same concept.
Yeah. Yeah. What do you think separates, like, a good estate planning attorney from a bad one?
I like to think that everybody is great. Is great.
That's a wonderful attitude to have. Let's say everyone's great, but on the spectrum of great, the really, really great ones and the less great ones.
Yeah. So I think that. I think that attorneys are public servants. Right. So we are supposed to. If we don't know how to do something, it's our job to figure it out or to identify that we don't know how to figure it out and to pass the client to somebody else. And so I think good attorneys are attorneys that are qualified in what they do and can recognize their limitations and. And can pass the client to somebody who's gonna better serve them. There are plenty of people that I speak with, you know, on a daily basis that I might work with or I might decide. I think you can be better served by a different attorney, you know, because you want to find the right person for that situation.
Yeah. I mean, to me, that's really. It's almost just. And to translate it to, like, more general business thought is it's really about integrity in some ways, because the reason you're retaining a client, even if you think you're not the most qualified for it, is because ultimately you want the money. Right. And so if you're doing things that are. So it's really. You're making it about you instead of the other person. And to some degree, you're almost being disingenuous.
In some ways. Yes. And there are certainly clients I take and I do it because, you know, they, because I want to help them. There are some clients we take where we're not going to really earn a profit on it. But it is a, like, you see the bigger picture of why we, we came here, why we're doing this. Right. So, so, but yeah, I think the primary driver for any business is to try to make a profit and you have to put your clients needs above your own.
Right. You really should, all the time.
Yeah. But I think, I think, I think there's something to be said though that if you like, even if it means giving up short term profit or short term income, I think doing the right thing on a regular basis in the end kind of comes back around because you'll be known as a person that does the right thing kind of no matter what. And then hopefully people want to, you know, refer to you and, and give you business in the future because they know they can trust you.
Yeah, I think that's right.
So I think I want to talk a little bit about some of the things that you do in your personal life to make you successful in your professional life. One thing I enjoy asking people is if they're a night or a morning person.
Yeah. So I am absolutely a morning person.
Okay.
And sometimes the evening comes on and I feel like my whole body is so exhausted I can barely think because I put so much effort in the morning to whatever it is that I've been focused on. So definitely a morning person.
Do you do anything when you get up in the morning? Like, are there any kind of specific habits or routines you have to kind of like help you get your day set and going every day? Or is it kind of just like just kind of get up and get going and let the day come at you?
Yeah. I'm like any other human being where I think that people just. We're always trying to find the right thing that can help us wake up and feel better. Right.
So I am not sure that everyone is intentional about that though.
In the morning maybe. Yeah. Some people need more motivation than that. But so for me, I, you know, I. My routine has changed over time. I also have a daughter who's, you know.
Yeah. Kids really mess things up.
Yeah. So sometimes you have no control over what your morning routine looks like, even if you want to. But in your ideal world, you have.
Yeah, let's talk ideal routine. Yeah.
In my ideal world, I would do a lot more than I already do, but I'm catching up on that sleep. I lost three Years ago. So. So yeah, but you know, my morning routine currently is just, you know, make sure I wake up before everybody else in my house so that I can have a quiet moment to myself where I can shower and process and get ready and think about the things that I'm gonna do. I spend probably longer than most people getting ready in the morning, but it's more of a sort of like a meditation for me.
Sure.
In the sense that I get up and I that shower sometimes I have my aha moments there and then just taking care of myself a little bit. So if I have the hour of self care before the day starts when you know, my daughter starts screaming, get her out of the crib. I can be there and present for it.
So yeah, that's great. I find that definitely the difference between I don't like it when I'm. Even if I'm tired, it's better to wake up earlier and be able to like take getting ready in the morning and like a calm pace as opposed to trying to get another 15 or 30 minutes of sleep. And then you're just kind of like rushing through and then if anything goes wrong, then you're thrown off and then you're stressed out and then as opposed to just like having the cushion to like go slow and then kind of like a slow ramp up instead of just like falling off of cliff immediately in the morning. Definitely helps me start my day better as well. So that's great. Is there anything, is there anything, any other kind of daily habits that you do throughout the day that help you kind of keep on, keep on track and stay focused throughout the day?
Yeah, so I really, you know, depending on who's doing pickup and drop off in the morning for my daughter. Besides that, you know, I really try to work, start work by 8 o' clock in the morning because I know my most valuable hours are that early. And then I really do. I used to do it at 5am But I don't have as much control over my schedule.
Sure.
But my ideal world, I would wake up at five and do it all. But yeah, trying to get that day started and then really fitting it all in. I do, I tend to try to take breaks every two hours just to sit there and like remember to drink water, breathe, eat something because you can kind of get caught up in your work and not even realize that five hours have gone by and you haven't used the restroom.
Yeah. Yeah. Get dialed in. Do you feel like. So you, you feel like you do your best work in the morning? Does like kind of your available energy taper off throughout the day.
Yeah. So I always experience. I think this is probably universal. People have that like they do siestas in Spain, right? Yeah. Like you get the two to three hour where you just sort of feel tired. So I do often save more of the. More of this sort of like networking or like administrative. Administrative emails that need to go out. I do administrative things during that hour and so that I can be back on it. And then it's so funny because I always feel like by 3 o' clock I'm ready to go and I could go another five hours, but I have other. I have a family I gotta take care of, so I can't work.
Yeah, you can't only be taking care of everyone. Other else's families, right?
Yeah.
That's great. Yeah, there's. I find that's true as well. Like my, you know, what I'm gonna call deep work, where you really got to be focused and in some ways creative, whether or not you're like painting something or. But just like the act of writing and, and solving problems, I think is, you know, is a creative process. I definitely find that doing that stuff earlier in the day is better for me because in the afternoon, like my ability to concentrate and focus on stuff drops off dramatically as well. And so definitely being intentional with how I plan my work for the day makes a difference.
Yeah, I agree.
So we are getting closer to the end of our time, but there's a couple things I wanted to talk about. What is, do you have any advice you'd give to someone who is struggling to maintain momentum in their career or in their business or struggling to kind of get started?
Yeah, I think it would be staying positive. I really try to have a positive attitude about things and I think there are ebbs and flows in work all the time and job availability and all the aspects of your career. There are always ebbs and flows. But being consistent and persistent and trying to stay positive help. It's not the solution for everything, but it helps. And then just this recognition of, you know, our need to recognize our own limitations and then really try to. And try to figure out ways where we can get around those sometimes. And sort of self acknowledgement, self awareness and care is like. I think every time you're feeling better about yourself, you do things better.
Yeah. Yeah, that's great. I think so. A couple things there. One is, I think that's a really prescient point is, is knowing yourself well enough to like know your weaknesses and adjust for them. How do you do that in your own life or do you have an example of that?
Yeah, so, you know, I have a whole set of methods behind sort of like, you know, and it depends on what my mood is. Right. Like going for a big run helps me sort of recalibrate, reset sometimes and then, you know, getting massage or going to therapy or speaking with somebody about how you're feeling, those kind of things. All those things can help. So it just depends on what is going on.
And yeah, so you're really speaking to the element of self care to help you kind of stay in the maybe the positivity and the positive and persistent zone. Yeah, yeah, that's great. That's great. So let's get to kind of the, the bonus questions for the discussion. So what are some of the books that you've either gifted or recommended the most to people?
Yeah, so Jen Sincero has a series of books and she's one of my favorite authors and I definitely recommend you check her out. The title of her books are provocative. Yes.
That'S great. We'll put those in the description, in the show notes in the description of the YouTube video for people that want to check those out. What is it that you like about her books? What's been impactful for you?
She definitely talks about that having both conscious and subconscious understanding of your limitations and sort of recognizing them and gives some, she gives some really good advice about methods to sort of work on her own self development. And so I think I really enjoyed reading her books because she talks about affirmations, positivity, things that we can do to. Oh, I think we're always all trying to become better people. And so.
Yeah, yeah, I like, I appreciate that you have such a positive outlook on people and give them such the benefits of doubt because I don't, you know, I don't want to get too negative, but I don't know, it's interesting because I think most people are trying to work on themselves, but I think maybe it's that. Not that people don't want to work on themselves. Maybe that's too harsh, but maybe they get stuck and they don't know what to do. So maybe they need to read these books.
Yeah, that is definitely a good reason to read them. Yeah, to get unstuck.
That's it. So read them to get unstuck. If you could put one thing on a billboard like over the freeway that you wanted people to know, whether you want to inspire people or motivate people, what would you put on the billboard?
Oh, gosh That's a hard question.
It's not meant to be a stumper.
Yeah, I know. I think maybe just, you know, I'm going to reiterate the Staying positive. Stay positive.
Yeah. That's great.
Yeah. Because life can be really hard. I totally recognize that. I mean, my job involves people passing away.
I was gonna say, you probably know that better than most people.
Yeah. But, you know, I think I have gratitude for the lessons they've learned watching what happens to other people. I'm sort of lucky in that sense. I know what I don't want to do.
Yeah. Just to get that in right there. What are some of the lessons that you've learned watching other people?
You know, I don't. I've seen family relationships really get destroyed over time, and sometimes it's not even. It's not intentional. People just can't find a way to connect or they can't find a common ground. And I think there's always ways to extend an olive branch and try to encourage a discourse because it's so important.
Yeah.
To, you know, to see what people face at the end of their days is something that I see too often.
Yeah.
And. And the ones that have people around them are, I think, grateful.
Yeah. More at peace than those that don't. Yeah. That's great. So family is more important than money. Yes.
Yeah.
But hopefully people are able to keep sight of that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Bryn, thank you so much for being on the podcast. It's been a pleasure talking to you. I really appreciate it.
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
No problem. So where can. Well, I guess we won't. For legal reasons. I won't say where can be. Ask where people can find you. Unless you'd like to share someplace that people can find you on online. Do you have any preferences for that?
No.
Okay.
Yeah. Not at this time. Thank you.
All right, well, for. For the podcast, please subscribe wherever podcasts are found. We're on Spotify and Apple Podcasts you can listen and watch on YouTube. That really helps us out. You can also find me Jonathan Mart on LinkedIn or flywheelconsulting.com and the podcast is at. On the flywheel. Com. Thank you again for being on. And until next time, we'll talk to you all soon. Thank you.
Thanks.