Systems, Structure, and Surviving Growth
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In this episode, I sit down with consultant Jon Rickards to talk through his unique path—from the Navy’s nuclear program to decades in the wine industry—and how all of that led him into helping small and micro-businesses bring order to their chaos. Jon shares what most business owners struggle with, why understanding your numbers matters so much, and how he’s helping his wife build a community-focused salon business.
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Takeaways
- Non-linear paths create powerful skill sets.- Exposure broadens character and capability.
- Small business owners often lack business foundations.
- Understanding your numbers is essential.
- HR is a major blind spot.
- Chaos is often a systems problem, not a people problem.
- Micro-business owners must learn to give up hats.
- Building simple, maintainable systems matters.
- The salon model Jon and his wife built is about community, not just services.
- Relationships are a business survival tool.
Chapters
*00:00:00* Introduction00:02:05 Jon’s Early Life & Military Path
00:06:40 Lessons & Challenges from the Navy
00:10:55 Discovering a Passion for Finance
00:13:20 Trying Financial Advising & Realizing It Wasn’t a Fit
00:16:45 Entering the Wine Industry
00:21:30 Moving Toward Consulting
00:25:50 What Small Businesses Get Wrong
00:31:40 The Power of Systems & Delegation
00:36:10 Inside the Salon Business Model
00:41:45 Training, Compensation & Team Growth
00:46:30 Relationship Building in an Economic Downturn
00:49:00 Lightning Questions: Books & Billboards
00:51:15 Closing & Where to Find Jon
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Jonathan Mahrt (A):
This is on the Flywheel, a podcast where each week we talk to entrepreneurs and professionals about the practical things they do to build and keep momentum in their personal and professional lives. Hello and welcome to on the Flywheel. I'm Jonathan Mart, your host with Flywheel Consulting. And today I'm excited to have on the podcast John Ricards of John Ricards Business Management.
Jon Rickards (B):
You got it.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Better consultant than business namer. Yes. So thank you for being on today. I'm excited to have you on. We're both in the consulting space doing related but slightly different things. You're more finance operations, I'm more like it operations. And so we have a. There's a really nice, like, Venn diagram where we cross over and complement each other really well. So I'm really interested to dig into that stuff today. But first, I want to talk to you about, like, hear your journey, because you've had quite a journey and. And hear how that kind of led you to deciding to set out on your own and starting your own consulting business. And you're also helping your wife run. Run her business. And I think that could be really interesting to talk about as well, if there's some time. So start us out. How'd you tell us a little bit about your career path and how you got to where you are today? The highlights. The highlights.
Jon Rickards (B):
So the way that I like to explain it is this. I grew up on a farm. We were very hippie. Ish. We were farmers, so we had chickens and turkeys and cows and crops. And. And I hated it. And. And so I wanted nothing to do with it. And today, to this day, I still am not a farmer, but I am an avid gardener because I love, you know, the spirituality of it. So as a result of having that background of growing up as a hippie and not wanting to be a farmer, I went at the military. And so what I found in the military was I was really just about look for your passion, pursue your passion, and. And that will provide you entertainment, that'll provide you positive outcome. It'll provide you, you know, a place that you can go to and feel great about and still get paid.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
What branch of the military did you go into?
Jon Rickards (B):
I was in the Navy. Okay.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I did not know that. That's interesting.
Jon Rickards (B):
All right. I was in the. The nuclear power program. And so I studied nuclear physics and been inside a nuclear reactor before.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Crazy.
Jon Rickards (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Interesting. Okay, that's very cool. How long were you in?
Jon Rickards (B):
I was in just under four. Four years, actually. Had some reasons, but I should have been in longer but that's what it is.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So how was the. Was, you know, based on our conversations, I feel like. Was the discipline of the military good, good for you, or did you struggle with that?
Jon Rickards (B):
So I struggled with some elements. There were some things about it that were really important and valuable and taking care of yourself and being mindful of how you work and around others and contributing and being a part of the team. Those are things that were really important to me. Where I didn't fit in with the discipline was I did not fit in with the. It happened to me, therefore it's going to happen to you. And this whole hazing element that went along with it, and that was particularly troublesome for me. Beyond that, I really grew a lot while I was in the military and really was the catalyst for who I am today.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Interesting. So what other. What other impacts did the military have on. On you today? That. That you can speak positively about that?
Jon Rickards (B):
I can speak positively.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Well, I mean, it doesn't have to be positive. I mean, it could be good and bad. I mean, you know, the, The. The military is probably good and bad for most people.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You know, as. As most things are. Just depends where it ends up on the, you know, the ratio, I guess.
Jon Rickards (B):
Right. So for me, I would say the number one positive thing out of it was exposure. Exposure to other people. Grew up in a tiny little town. We had. While we were extremely diverse because we had a huge Hispanic population, you know, there. There were. There were very few any other kinds of people around culturally or, you know, socially. Socially or whatever.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Economically, it's kind of.
Jon Rickards (B):
Yeah, tiny little town stuff. And so getting into the Navy, you know, I was exposed to all kinds of people that I would never have been exposed to before, and that really has formed who I am today. Since I had no direction going in. You know, there's a lot of things that, That I was exposed to that I got to see in the world that either were positive and negative, but I. You take those things, you take those elements and you. You bring them forward and you. You learn from them and then you actually improve your life through them. And one of the things that I do appreciate is the exposure to all these people and all these areas I traveled around and culturally was exposed in ways that I had never been exposed before.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, that's. That is very cool.
Jon Rickards (B):
So what.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So after the military, you're working on nuclear reactors and stuff, which is cool. Or learning about them at least. Where do you go from there?
Jon Rickards (B):
So what I learned, I had a person in the Military, that was into finance, and he was into investing in mutual funds. And I just was like a sponge to this guy. He just talked and talked and talked. And really, that was my first exposure to being independently, you know, wealthy. Not that I was, because I was poor, but the idea of becoming independently wealthy through investments, and then that led me to eventually going to school and getting my finance degree.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
He was your Dave Ramsey?
Jon Rickards (B):
A little bit, yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay. So you go and get a finance degree, but you don't go. I mean, I don't. We haven't talked about this. I assume you don't go into being a financial advisor or something like that. You go more the business route.
Jon Rickards (B):
Yeah. That's great that you say that, because I actually did go the financial advisor route. And so I went to work for a company called Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, which is one of the larger life insurance companies around. And I sold life insurance, annuities, mutual funds, and investing. And what happened was I was quickly faced with this idea that I did not like to sell myself. And in fact, selling life insurance is really all about fear selling. And so it did not resonate with me. And I quickly found that I just couldn't do the selling part of it, which is also kind of coming to face me now that I'm in a, you know, selling myself as a consultant. But that's why I'm doing these kinds of things to sort of improve my. My. My skill set, if you will.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, I mean, there's definitely an element of imposter syndrome that I think. I mean, that everyone has. I know. I felt that a lot when I. I don't feel it so much now, but in the first, like six months to a year, I felt weird talking about my business, especially because it's like I'm a solopreneur.
Jon Rickards (B):
Right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I'm just. Right now it's just me. Hopefully it's more than that someday. Right. But it's like, so saying I have a company when anyone can do it with about 15 minutes of effort.
Jon Rickards (B):
Well, and that goes to. You may mention to it earlier when you mentioned my business name, John Ricardo's Business Management. Well, I'm a business coach, consultant. I am very practical with my business name. And so when you put your first and last name in the name of your business, you don't have to register it. You don't have to get a dba, you don't have to do anything. You can change it all you want as quickly as you want, as long as it has your first and last name in it. And so as I'm trying, trying to construct who I am as a solopreneur, that gives me the most flexibility. That's funny.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, that's true. I did have to pay for the, to register and then put my little ad in some random classified paper, which I think that's the only thing supporting whatever paper I put it into was people starting businesses, having to put it in the newspaper, which is crazy that we have to do that still.
Jon Rickards (B):
It is, it is interesting, but you know, it is the way we work.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay, so you go, you try Northwestern Financial. And where do you decide selling isn't for you? Where do you go from there?
Jon Rickards (B):
So I got a job in the wine industry. And the reason why I got a job in the wine industry is because along with farming and being a farmer, we actually farm grapes. Wine grapes. And so we were in the culture of the wine industry. And so while I wasn't working in the wine industry, I still experienced the culture of the wine industry. And there's something special about the wine industry. One thing that I can say that's special, that stinks about the wine industry is that pretty much across the board, wages are less than comparable jobs in other businesses. But what you get is you get all kinds of things that you can't get in other types of businesses because of the harvest. You get compensation towards days off and flexibility throughout the course of the year because of the extra work time that you do. You, you get freebies, you know, free wine, free chashis. People love to give out stuff. And so there's a lot of different things that are benefits about the wine industry that aren't necessarily in other industries. And so it just, it called to me. And so I actually went to apply for a job at Kendall Jackson property out in Napa called Cardinal State Winery. And coincidentally, the general manager of that property was also a former Navy nuclear. Oh, wow. Engineer. And so when I didn't get the job because they consolidated all the jobs at Kendall Jackson corporate, he said, hey, I got this other job that pays $7 less than an hour. And it's basically data entry, but it'll get your job, your foot in the door. And I said, great, I'll do it. And then after that, it was just a function of raising my hand every time. They said, can you do something? Can you volunteer? And I did. And then that brought me to touching basically everything over the next 25 years within the wine industry, from creating businesses, creating brands to selling brands, operations, building teams and so on. And so forth.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And so you get all this great experience helping run wine businesses, and then you're like, okay, I'm going to send.
Jon Rickards (B):
Out on my own.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I'm going to leave that all behind me.
Jon Rickards (B):
Yeah, actually started my initial consulting career back in the 2000s time frame, and I had a special skill with software in wine industry software. And so I was hired to do some special jobs that sort of gave me a taste. But what I didn't like to do about that was I didn't like the mercenary element of it. I like going in, doing a job, getting a paycheck, but not really making relationships, not really feeling like I'm helping people out and them appreciating what I do. And so that really kind of turned my direction into this small micro business consulting area. And so that is where I developed it. Started the business officially in 2017, but quit my corporate job in 2022.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay, and now, now you're doing this in conjunction with helping your wife's business?
Jon Rickards (B):
Yeah, I work about 25% of my time as CFO for my wife's salon business.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay, and so you're. What kind of consulting are you trying to do and who are, who's your target demographic right now? I mean, I heard micro business and then in the name. What does that mean?
Jon Rickards (B):
Yeah, that's great. So I actually tell people I do three things. I do advising, coaching, and consulting. So when I look at advising, what that is, is us sitting like this where we have a conversation and we talk about what your needs are and where you want to go. And I give you my feedback based upon my experiences. That could be, hey, you need to go do some work with forecasting. You may need to go do some work with hr. That may mean you need to implement some new software. Wherever that conversation takes me. Because I'm a generalist and have done a lot of things. What I know is where my expertise ends and where you need to hire somebody new. And so where advising comes in is telling you, giving you advice on how to hire and bring the people in that you need. Second thing I do is this coaching thing where we build a plan. And this is where the micro businesses come in. A lot of business people want to do things, but they don't know how to get to that point. And they don't take into consideration all the things you need to know. And sometimes those things are who's going to sell, who's going to do your finances, who's going to do your advertising. If you're passionate about what you do. You typically get in the business because that passion, not because you want to do advertising or want to do payroll or those other things. And so oftentimes people grow and they get a little challenged with that and that's where I can help them out. Then the third area, what I call consulting, is where if you need somebody to do something special that you don't have that expertise in house, like you need somebody to look at your, your P and L, you need to revise your chartered account so you can understand it better. Maybe you need to develop a compensation plan. Maybe you just need some data analyzed and some insights. Those are kinds of things you can hire me for one off to do and I can use my skills for that so you don't have to hire that person in house.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay, and, and what kind of businesses are you looking to help?
Jon Rickards (B):
So I am, by virtue of the fact that I have had 25 years in the wine business. I'm obviously looking to help wine businesses because my wife has been in the esthetics business for 10 ish years. I have a specialty within the beauty business and so those are sort of in my wheelhouse. But I'm also looking for other people. Construction businesses are awesome people because they tend to grow and they tend to do it through willpower. And they, they don't tend to have a lot of skill sets as they grow. You know, business skill sets, they have technical business skill sets.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
What I like to say in my experience is that people are great at the thing they do. They're not so great at the business part of it. Yeah, typically, sometimes there's people that are super savvy or they develop those skills because that's natural. You know, they're good at asking questions. But lots of times they're like, people start businesses because they're good at something. They have a specific skill. Right. I have 10 years in the construction business. I'm tired of making someone else money. I'm going to go start, I start doing side jobs. Then I get busy enough, I start doing my own jobs. But nowhere in that whole process did you ever get any real business experience.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And so they jump in and they're like they're cooking, but the back end business part of it is a mess.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right. And I have a couple of clients like that where they're just so successful, but they can't get out in front of their own success because they're just running around in this chaos environment where they're just driving forward the way that they've always been, but you can't. That's not sustainable.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right. And that's. I think that's also where. That's. I think that's also where we kind of converge and touch on it from different angles. Because my perspective is, okay, operationally, how do we get organized? Like, how do you create leverage? How. How do you actually, like, have a system and process for how work happens? It's not just like you show up, you throw. Like, if I'm a construction guy, I bid something, I never write it down. I don't have any process for documenting it. I don't have any way of. You're wanting them to do all those things. Right. Because you got to be tracking your numbers and knowing what's going on in your business. Right. I'm saying, well, yeah, you can't run your business because you don't know your numbers. And also, like, how do you stay organized? It just becomes an avalanche and you can't get out from underneath.
Jon Rickards (B):
I like to say it as, how do you make smart decisions if you don't have the information to make those smart decisions?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Jon Rickards (B):
And. And so you're. That's why I say people will them through success. Right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
It's sheer. The sheer force of will and hard work.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Working, literally working harder, not smarter.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Not because they're not smart people.
Jon Rickards (B):
No. But because that's where they're at in their business development.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yes, yes. And. And the saying. I always like to say the saying, the thing I like to. I don't know what I. A good saying is what is not measured cannot be improved.
Jon Rickards (B):
Yes.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right. And so if you aren't tracking your numbers, then you can't work on it.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And that works from both the financial and operational perspective when it comes to a business. So, I mean, we've kind of already jumped into it. What do you see? Like, what do you see the average small business owner get right? What do you see? What do you think that they tend to get wrong?
Jon Rickards (B):
I'm going to say, number one thing that they tend to get wrong is they don't understand the cost of their business. They don't understand the levers they can pull in order to affect their business. They don't understand the difference between a variable cost, a fixed cost, those kinds of things. And then the number two thing, that is where I see the most challenge is hr. You have risk all over the place with hr. And we do these things because that's the way that we were taught to do them, particularly in businesses like, you know, like a trades business. You come up as a construction guy, you learn what they're doing, but you don't actually learn anything that is fundamentally the right way to do it. Right. And so you do things. You have people, you know, not doing safety courses or not having the proper safety documentation or, you know, not doing harassment training. You know, there's a lot of areas and risks that I think that people don't evaluate within the customer, their. Their companies.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, yeah. When people go out to start a business, they're not thinking about all the, like, boring, crummy parts about registers. Right. HR is the last thing on anyone's mind.
Jon Rickards (B):
For our salon, we just hired a new person that started this week. Today, before I was here. What I'm working on is I'm working on creating a CSM device, so a customer service management device that will allow her to decide which company she wants to go market to, and then all the results for that. There's all kinds of software out there, but I don't want to pay 50 bucks for this piece of software or 100 bucks for a piece of software, $200 worth of software. But those are the kinds of things that we need to do and that small businesses need to do also, is to figure out who they're going to market to, where their next client is coming from, and how much it's going to cost to acquire that client.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, that's. I mean, that's very important. I think the other thing that happens is people get really busy with their business, right? Everything's great, Everything's great, Everything's great. But they're not making sure that they're continuing to fill the funnel. And so suddenly they get to the end of the work and they're like, oh, I don't. I don't have anything backing me up. Then they go out there and they market, they market, they market, they get full again. As opposed to having a process and a proper sales cycle where they're constantly replenishing the funnel.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right. In fact, some people, they may have an idea what the funnel says, but they don't even have an idea what the dollars associated with that funnel mean. And so in order to forecast and see what you need to do to be able to support your business, they can't see that because they just don't have the visibility into it.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, yeah. And that's where I say, yeah, you also need some sort of software.
Jon Rickards (B):
Right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You need something to track it.
Jon Rickards (B):
And that's where you come in and say, okay, how do we actually.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
What is the tool we use to track this? You know, I have tried. You mentioned, like building something yourself. I love that. My problem with that is that it's hard to maintain depending on what it is. And so sometimes it's like you gotta.
Jon Rickards (B):
Go simple because you have to maintain it. And if you don't make it simple, then you can't maintain it.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. And that's the hard part is that also if you build something, you become the only person that can fix it. Like, that's been my experience in my family's business is I would help. Like I would try and build something in order to save money, but then it's like. And it's great. It saves me money. But it does, like, it's like 90 to 95% is good, maybe a little bit worse, a little bit better, depending on what it is, than like the off the shelf solution. But it's so finicky and hard to maintain and if I'm not there, I have to fix it.
Jon Rickards (B):
Yes.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You know, and so sometimes it's like, now I've learned over the years, it's like, okay, well we need to pay a little bit more because you can call someone up and they can fix this for you or help you solve this problem.
Jon Rickards (B):
Yeah, it's, it's interesting. Right now, this tool that I'm building is super basic. I currently use HubSpot as a tool I use for my CSM, my CRM stuff. I signed up for a free version for my wife's salon. And as I was working at it today, I'm like, I don't want my employee to spend their time having to learn this tool. And I want them to be out there marketing, not learning the tool. And so that's why I said, I need to make this dumber. I need to make it simpler because I don't want them to have to spend all this time. And so those are kinds of decisions that I help people make about where you want to spend your, where you want to allocate your, your time. And what's more important is my person being in front of other people, not being in front of a computer.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Yeah. One thing that I always try and talk to people, like, for me, lever the idea of leverage is a really important thing. Like the whole I, what I'm trying to do for people is helping them spend more time doing only the things that only they can do. Yeah. Because that's. And that should you kind of apply that to the whole business, whether it's, you know, the person at, you know, the entry level position or at the very top. Right. Like, you want to find ways to make people be doing the highest value activity possible and then automate and delegate or eliminate all. All the other stuff.
Jon Rickards (B):
I mean, and. And there's a little bit of that where that's part of the reason why I'm working with these little micro. Micro clients, if you were these micro businesses, because they're wearing so many hats that they have to figure they're afraid of losing control.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right.
Jon Rickards (B):
And so they have to figure out how to get rid of some of those hats.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yes.
Jon Rickards (B):
And that's part of what I'm doing is I'm explaining and working through that process. And there's a little therapy that goes along with that too. Right. And how people, you know, internalize these things and give up that control is really important.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's a big deal. Because when you start a business, you're responsible for everything and you feel like you have the, you know, the magic touch that makes everything work. And then if you have your hands out of it, then nothing, then nothing will work. Right?
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And most often it's like a. It's a process issue. It's not a personnel issue.
Jon Rickards (B):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Because what I see is people are like, oh, well, I have to. I have to, like, I have to work on every single one of these things. Talk to every single customer. Like, well, no, you need to teach your people, like when it's necessary to escalate things to you. Right. What is the baseline of work that they can do and handle on their own that you're comfortable with? You can set expectations of, like, quality of service, all this kind of stuff. Because I was having a conversation with a friend that owns an auto shop, you know, and he's like, he has finally got a front. There's a name for it. But like a service writer. He finally got a service writer because he's like, I can't just be behind the desk talking to customers all day. Right. But training a service writer in an auto shop to do a good job is really hard because. Because he's like, I'm constantly dealing with this stuff. And then he's going back and forth and it's causing him more work. But as he trains the guy over time, it's getting better and better and freeing him up more and more. But it's a hard, difficult process to get to that point because there's all these edge cases that come Up. It's like, you got to make sure you're communicating.
Jon Rickards (B):
What's this? What about this? What about this? What about this? What about this?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. He's like, oh, well, you didn't tell the customer that what we quoted them probably won't fix it, or you didn't make sure they really understood it. So then we did. They authorized the work. It didn't fix it. And then they feel duped.
Jon Rickards (B):
And.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And it's not because we didn't tell them, but we didn't really do a good enough job telling them. So then whose fault is it? Do I have to pay to make it right? Like, there's all these expensive lessons along the way to get there, but if you don't invest in that process, then you just get stuck in kind of this crazy cycle where you're just like, you own a job, not a business.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right. That's right. And there is this element of expensive lessons. I mean, when we built our salon, we had a very big expensive lesson in one particular area, and it cost us like, $10,000. And I'm like, wow, okay. At least the benefit of this is that when I consult with my clients, they're not gonna have to have that same lesson. And I'm gonna amortize that $10,000 over the next 10 years worth of clients. There you go.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So let's talk about the salon business a little bit. I'm so interested. It's a business. I've never. I mean, I know people in it a little bit, but I've never known anyone that's really trying to open up their own salon. So what's that. What's that business like?
Jon Rickards (B):
It's a really interesting thing, because the salon business, if you. If. I mean, we're here in Petaluma, if you go Google salons in Petaluma, you're probably going to get 90 salons. So, wow, that's a lot of salons for a little tiny town like Petaluma. Well, what you can see when you just Google that number is that there's a whole bunch of individual contributors out there that own their own businesses or they rent a share in another business.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right.
Jon Rickards (B):
There's not one, you know, sort of a big group of people that sort of provide sort of any continuity, like an organization or anything like that. And so what my wife has done is with her desires to create community within that. That space she wants. You know, there's. If you talk to eyelash artists, a lot of them are lonely, and they're lonely Because a lot of estheticians, they work with their client with their eyes closed, even if they're not doing eyelashes, if they're doing facials or they're doing.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So you put some, like, googly eyes on top there so they feel more connected.
Jon Rickards (B):
Some people, yeah, there are some weird things they put on their faces, but oftentimes these estheticians, they're working alone. And so what we're trying to do is we're trying to bring community to estheticians, and we're trying to bring a team element in a way that doesn't really exist. There is a corporate element within this world, Right. You can go look at places like European Body Wax, that's a corporation, and they're. They have a very corporate model. There's not a lot of that within the. The beauty industry. There's a lot of these little small guys and gals. And so what we're trying to do is we're trying to create a community where people feel supported and they can thrive in a way that they would not thrive on their own.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And this is specifically the people doing the work.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right. The artists, what we call artists. So we're talking about lash artists. We're talking about estheticians that do facials, waxing and so on and so forth. And they are a. They are a technician. The same way the auto mechanic that we were talking about earlier, that takes a long time to, like, learn that. That process. We're also talking about the same sort of thing. And so with our estheticians, we know it takes a period of time of getting experience before you become that. And in some ways. And I had this conversation with one of our employees yesterday. I said, you know, we don't. I don't really trust her yet, but I know that in a year from now, she's going to come to me and say, this is what we need to do, because she's going to have conviction of her trust and her.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Her in her own abilities and her own abilities.
Jon Rickards (B):
But it takes time to learn all that. And so we're trying to create a place where people can grow. And if they decide to leave us as employees, that's going to stink.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right?
Jon Rickards (B):
Because we're putting a lot of energy into their growth, but even when they leave us, they're going to go and do their own thing, and we're still going to be getting goodness from them because they're going to be saying, hey, this is what I built my business based upon, what I got from the community of Lunar Lash.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right. But they're probably also not doing everything either. So they may say, like, I do this component and then you go, go over, go back to my old place of work.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And they'll take care of the rest of it for you.
Jon Rickards (B):
There are a lot of people out there that only stay focused within a specific area. We have expanded to make sure that we cover most of the esthetics areas. What we don't do are things like nails and we certainly don't do hair. Hair styling. That's a completely different area. Right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I mean, so lawns, a broad term.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right. And there's, there's other things like sugaring, which is a style of, of waxing, and there is, you know, permanent makeup. You know, so there's a lot of things that are within that context, but we try to, we try to do the main things and we try to have a community where everybody is supported within that area.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So are you doing kind of the more traditional model where people are paying rent for a chair or are they actually hourly employees?
Jon Rickards (B):
They are hourly employees. And that's the key difference between our model and other models, because we want everybody to feel like they are getting everything they can out of it. We want them to buy into our methodology and we want them to buy in our, in our sort of image. And the only way to do that is to compensate them in a way that they aren't going to be able to get compensated if they're doing their own thing. Because we do need them to pull, to pull in the same direction. We need them to be rowing in the same direction.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right. So that, does that mean then they're not having to. Are they strictly hourly? Is there some element of commission to it? Or are they like you're doing all the lead gen for the business and they just have to be there working.
Jon Rickards (B):
A combination of what you've described. We are definitely responsible for all the lead generation. However, what that entails is we have a multi tiered marketing plan that includes digital marketing, social media marketing, and it includes referral marketing and what we call marketing missions. And that entails our team going out into the community and saying hi, advising people on to the, that we exist, the letting them know that we have these specials, letting them know that this is something. Because what we need is we need people to see us because we know we have an awesome service, we know the experience is fantastic. We've gotten so much positive feedback over the years that we know what works and that's what we're trying to recreate with this concept of having employees. And so we're empowering our employees. There's one employee that's responsible for all our social media management stuff. And that's because she appreciates it, she's enthusiastic about it, she's. She's dive right in. And so what we do is we try to give our team things that will be personal growth items as well as professional growth items that then will want them to stay with us.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Jon Rickards (B):
For the long term.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's.
Jon Rickards (B):
We can't count on it.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right.
Jon Rickards (B):
But that's the goal.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. I mean, that's the. That is. The tough part about your kind of business is that you're going to spend all this money training people. They're doing it on an hourly basis. Right. So you're paying for their training as opposed to maybe someone that's doing some sort of an apprenticeship thing or they're only getting paid when they're actually working.
Jon Rickards (B):
Yes.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You know, and so there's.
Jon Rickards (B):
There's a definite investment in it, which comes with a little bit of anxiety in that regard. But however, we know that when we do it this way, we know what our customers are going to get.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right.
Jon Rickards (B):
And what they get is they get people that. They can feel the love coming through their fingertips when they walk into our salon. They go, oh, this is a place I want to be. Because I feel relief while I'm here.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. It's always been one of those weird things. I mean, for me is like, so my main experience with this kind of salon environment is going to a barber shop. Who'd have thought, right?
Jon Rickards (B):
I go to the barbers too.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And it's always been weird to me is that the barbershop itself has some sort of brand and experience, but everyone owns their own business in the barber shop. Every barber own, you know, pays rent for their chair and owns it. So you have this, like, really disjointed experience. That's right. Where it's like, well, can I speak to the barbershop itself? Not really. I'm speaking to my barber. If I make a recommendation, it's not to the barbershop generally, it's probably to my barber, you know, and so it's kind of like, maybe there's some barbershops do a bit better job of vetting who's in the. Who's actually renting their chairs. Right. Because they want anyone that goes there. Like, it's just this weird dynamic where it's like kind of a business, but kind of not.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's exactly you, you've just described the salon in a nutshell. Yes. It also applies to the barbershop because they're exactly the same model, but you go in and most of these places that have more than one chair, it's a disparate experience. You're going to get one experience with this person, you're getting totally different experience with this person, and they're not going to be even consistently the same.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right.
Jon Rickards (B):
So when you. What we're trying to achieve is when you go and get a, an eyelash extension from, from my wife, you're going to get an experience. When you're going to get the same eyelash extension through one of our employees, say, Abby, you're going to get the same exact. And while I don't like this concept of, you know, comparing it to McDonald's, you know, you get a McDonald's in California and then you go to McDonald's in Texas and it tastes exactly the same. Yeah, that's what we're trying to achieve. Since we have a high degree of technical ability, with my wife's skills, she knows she can translate that to other people. And then what we're, we're going to do is we're going to elevate the experience for everybody.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, no, I think that's a really interesting idea. I think that it's, it's an opportunity. I'm here for the ride.
Jon Rickards (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
How it goes as you continue to navigate it. Because I think, I think it could be really cool.
Jon Rickards (B):
Yes. And I want to speak to this. We're coming into an economical downturn. And since I'm a business coach, this is something that's present on my mind. And I believe the things that are going to strengthen and provide continuity for people through this economic downturn is relationship building. And what we're trying to do with our clients is we're trying to build these relationships so that way they feel like this is my person, this is my place. Not just that I'm going to go get my back hair waxed off, I'm going to go to my place. That's going to feel amazing for me. And if we solidify that and build and manage those relationships, that's what's going to support us during challenging economic times.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Well, absolutely. I mean, when things get hard, it's the good businesses that survive. The people on the fringes are the ones that, you know, if you're a three star rating, you're probably, you're going to be the ones that struggle the most.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You know, the, the people that are the fours and the fives, they're like gonna have a downturn, but they're gonna weather it because people know, like, you're gonna choose to go to the place where, you know, you have the best experience. And why are you gonna go waste money on people that aren't gonna give you the same level of experience?
Jon Rickards (B):
And, and you people in the coaching business, they, they talk about this building a moat. We're building a moat around our castle, and our castle is Luna. And, and our teammates are building this note of experience, of wonderful experience that people will feel. And by doing that, even during challenging times, we will all survive together because we're a team together.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Now is the ideal world that you would have more than one of these, like you would replicate this experience other places.
Jon Rickards (B):
So I don't see any reason why this can't be replicated. And in fact, the thing that I believe is the most challenging to replication is finding the right people.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Oh yeah.
Jon Rickards (B):
So it's not just necessary that we have another location or have a good business plan. It's also that we have the right person to execute that business plan. And so as we look and as we hire and as we teach and we empower, we're also looking to see what the next phase is for these people that are most valuable assets, which is our team members.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You know what this kind of reminds me of is Chick Fil A. You know, because Chick Fil A, like the food is good, right. But what you go. Part of what you go to Chick.
Jon Rickards (B):
Fil A is the experience.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And what happens is, is people max out working at a fast food restaurant, but they pay people well, they have a good training program. Right. You get a very consistent experience. And the way you grow is that eventually you get to go open your own spot.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right. And you mentioned earlier, I forgot to touch on it is the compensation element of it. So they are employees that, that are hourly employees, but their compensation is significantly more than their base compensation. So when you're hired as a brand new employee, you get your, you know, 20 bucks an hour or whatever it is, whatever the minimum wage is around here. But what you're doing is as you book up, your, your compensation is increasing because the tip factors tremendous with this type of service. On average we're getting between 15 and 20% tips on every service. And if you do a two hour service and you charge somebody 150 bucks, they're getting another 15 to 30 bucks on, on top of that, that 20 bucks an hour. And so over the course of time, the more you book, the more your bank will benefit. And then you will see the rewards of that.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right.
Jon Rickards (B):
And then you become less beholden to the machine, if you will, because then you're supporting your clients and they're giving them such, you're giving them such a great experience that they're going to tip you more. Right. And that it's a self perform, fulfilling kind of a thing.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So is the additional compensation mostly through the, the tipping then?
Jon Rickards (B):
Yeah, we also, we have a commission structure as well. So for retail sales there is a commission structure.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay.
Jon Rickards (B):
We also have, we will do a bone, a profit sharing plan because that's also another way to get buy in and to get people to, to feel good about their contributions to the organization. And so while we can't do it now because we're not profitable, we're still, you know, in this initial startup phase. As soon as we become profitable, there will be a bonus structure that will.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Also, I think that's really provide value that's really powerful because then that all becomes super. I think that all becomes really, that, that package becomes compelling. Because when it's just, if it's just hourly by itself, then then it's like, yeah, that's nice, you get some comfort. But at some point people are going to outgrow that.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right. But if you have a way for people to make more money by contributing more, by working harder or their efforts are directly rewarded but they don't have to take on all the risk.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Of going out on their own where it's like, yeah, Maybe I make 10% more, but I have 50% more headaches, you know, then that, that ratio probably isn't worth it. But if it's so if I get like 90% of the income for way less hassle, then that could be compelling for the right people.
Jon Rickards (B):
It is. And in fact, that's part of our business model. When we built our business plan, our original business plan was to hire established estheticians as well as new estheticians. And the goal with that was a lot of estheticians that have been established. It's because they are already running their business and they know how difficult it is. And they don't want to be the person that has to deal with all the, you know, the paying the sales taxes. They don't want to have to deal with money management and making sure their bank account is proper. They don't want to have to deal with these things. They don't have to deal with taxes, they don't want to deal with, you know, all the regulatory stuff, licensing and whatnot. And so those people have felt the pain and then they go, oh, I think working for somebody that takes care of all that would be more beneficial. And so while we haven't been successful in the short term of hiring people that have established experience, as we mature, we will become a place where people will recognize that that's of value to us.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Because it is a relatively, I assume, novel model at this point. So there's probably some hesitancy to be the first person to jump on that bandwagon. That's right.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's right. And if you're already established and you've done, you've gone through most of those battles, you kind of like.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I kind of already know it.
Jon Rickards (B):
Yeah, that's right.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Well, as you promised before we started, I had no problem getting you to answer questions. So we are already at time right here. We've been blowing through it. It's been an awesome conversation. I want to do our. My kind of bonus questions here that I try and ask everyone. The first one is what is the book that you gift or recommend most to people?
Jon Rickards (B):
Book. Oh, wow. Here's the deal with books. I don't do books well. Okay. Okay. I don't do books well because. Well, I have been a reader my entire life, but I read for pleasure.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Not for educational development or education.
Jon Rickards (B):
However, the Harvard to that. Sorry, I'm making a long story off my short question. When I quit my job and started doing this business, I made it a goal of mine to be reading self help books. So my favorite book that I've read in this new version of. Yeah. Is a book called Dopamine Nation. It is incredible. It blew my mind. I read it a couple years ago and every. I refer to that every week. Literally. I'm constantly referring to dopamine. It is a phenomenal book and tells you about motivation.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay.
Jon Rickards (B):
And addiction. Those are two real big elements. So.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Well, we are a society of addicts. Right. Whether it's our. I mean, it could be drugs or something like that, but it's our phone, social media. That's right.
Jon Rickards (B):
Me, my biggest sugar. I'm. I have a sugar problem.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, I have a snacking problem. Not sugar, but savory snacks. Yeah. Depends on the savory crush snacks.
Jon Rickards (B):
A lot of those savory ones also have sugar in them too.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Well, yes, but. Yes. Yes.
Jon Rickards (B):
Salt and sugar. Those are our enemies.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yes. I have. That is my number One vice. The other question I like to ask is if you could put a billboard up over freeway and put anything on it that you'd want to tell people other than promoting your business, what would it be?
Jon Rickards (B):
Oh, wow. Other than promoting my business.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
This is something you're trying like some wisdom you're trying to impart to the people here.
Jon Rickards (B):
Yeah, so my, my wisdom is, is, you know, is basically okay, so what I've been telling my clients during this time of potential economic downturn. Strengthen relationships. That's what I'm going to say. Strengthen relationships. That means relationships with the people that are close to you. There were people that are in your, your peripheral circles. So like you and I, strengthening our relationship. Strengthening your relationship with the people that you, you do business with, your vendors. That's how people are going to get through the economical challenges, is by doing business with the people that they know because they are compelled to feel good and to empathize with those people. When you're dealing with business with somebody with, in China, for instance, you can turn off that spigot immediately.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right.
Jon Rickards (B):
But it's harder to turn off somebody that you know.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right.
Jon Rickards (B):
And so strengthen relationships.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I think that's, I think that's a great one. I mean, especially if you're in the small and medium sized business world, it's all about relationships. And even more so if you're a solopreneur doing a consulting business. Because people both, for both of us, it's like a very. People are giving you a very intimate look into their business as well as like admitting that they have flaws.
Jon Rickards (B):
That's why I mentioned there's a little bit of therapy in this because when you're looking at some of these financials, you're seeing all their bad habits.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Jon Rickards (B):
And it's scary for them and they don't want to go through this process. They don't even want to look at it themselves, let alone let somebody else look at it. So it can be a very, very scary process.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I try and help multi generational family businesses and that's a whole nother can of worms there. Well, thank you very much for being on the podcast, John. It's been a pleasure. What would you like to plug?
Jon Rickards (B):
Anything.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Let people know where to find you.
Jon Rickards (B):
Well, so my website, so I, my, my tagline is I bring order to chaos. So my website is I bring order to chaos.com and I, I use that tagline because people know what chaos is. I can't tell them what chaos is, but they know internally yeah. Intrinsically what their chaos is.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So that's great. Well, and I'm Jonathan Martin with Flywheel Consulting. You can find me at Flywheel Consulting. Co. And thanks once again for being on the podcast. We're done with another episode.
Jon Rickards (B):
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Much easier than I thought.